Class 47 head code boxes

[cheesysmith]

Having a HJ body that I wish to repaint, does anybody know of a list of the detail differences to the class 47s with dates? Or is there any books avalible with such data in? When you start going through the differences with glass, dominos, plated, flush fronts (and each end can be different), under frame tanks (or lack of), headlights and boiler roofs, it can become confusing.

 

Any help or links would be ideal.

[Pete Thorpe]

The most useful resource I found when looking for similar information was http://www.class47.co.uk/

 

No lists but a few details and loads of photos of individual locos, many of which are dated.

 

Pete

[DCB]

Not only were no two alike by the late 80s they also changed dramatically through their lives.  Ideally you need photos of both ends of the chosen loco within the same short time frame.    

[Daddyman]

Having a HJ body that I wish to repaint, does anybody know of a list of the detail differences to the class 47s with dates? Or is there any books avalible with such data in? When you start going through the differences with glass, dominos, plated, flush fronts (and each end can be different), under frame tanks (or lack of), headlights and boiler roofs, it can become confusing.

 

Any help or links would be ideal.

There's a post by a Mr Raffles here which gives numbers for boiler ports:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23768

 

Class47.co.uk will then hep you convert those numbers into new money. It is, as already suggested, a brilliant resource. 

 

Regarding the front ends, it not that they can be different so much as they had to be - at least when they were plated. There was some equipment in number two end (though exactly what equipment I don't recall) which meant the marker lights with rubber surrounds couldn't be fitted at both ends, meaning that a loco would "always" (note the scare quotes) have different types at each end. Flush ends tended to be fitted to repair accident damage, though I'm sure there were exceptions. 

[wirey33]

Pip Dunn's book "British Rail Main Line Locomotives Specification Guide" is the closest thing you'll get to published info but that lists the differences and the locos that carried them, not the other way around. It isn't totally comprehensive but it's a good starting point.

 

A list of detail differences by loco and by date would be the ultimate resource but you'll be waiting a long, long time before that becomes available; if ever.

 

Pick your loco, get some photos and then come back and post questions here or the class 47 section.

[Flood]

As mentioned by others the type of boiler port remained the same for each loco the only change was whether it was plated over or not.

 

Regarding the headcode boxes there were lists in each copy of the Railway Observer from 1976 to about 1982 as to whether the loco had domino headcodes or was plated over. Some Eastern Region 47s even had the plates mounted the other way up (the light apertures were not central) for even more variation. The Railway Observer lists were not perfect but at least give some idea as to the dates of change for locos. Changes were not necessarily noted immediately, months could go by before a change was reported. Also around 1981/82 the Railway Observer listed locos which had lost their water tanks. These sorts of observations stopped being on a regular basis after about 1982.

 

So the easiest starting point is the boiler port. At least all the locos which started off with a particular style can be grouped together. Platform 5 books and the Railway Observer both listed whether locos still had their steam heating and from this can be found the approximate date of ports being plated over. Any loco with steam heating isolated would still have kept the original port on the roof.

 

As stated before it is easier to pick a particular loco for a particular date (or time period within a year or so) and then find out from photographs the variations. The other method is to pick a date, buy a Platform 5 book for that period (that will tell you whether the steam heating was still usable and therefore whether the port was plated over or not) and then slowly going through every single Railway Observer from 1976 to the date in question for the other variations. I have done this a few times in the past, it takes a while.

 

After about 1983 virtually all 47s (if not all) had plated over headcode boxes but the variation of the square headlight boxes and the use of separate marker lights at No. 2 end (due to the space needed for an additional driver vigilance device) then arises. I do have a list of dates for the use of flush fronts, this was published in Traction a few years ago.

 

If somebody wants to pay me £20,000 a year for the next ten years I'll give up my job and try to compile all the approximate dates of variations (including liveries and renumbering) for each 47 so it is all in one book. Until then, looking at photos or asking about a specific loco is the only way forward.

[Pete Thorpe]

Regarding the front ends, it not that they can be different so much as they had to be - at least when they were plated. There was some equipment in number two end (though exactly what equipment I don't recall) which meant the marker lights with rubber surrounds couldn't be fitted at both ends, meaning that a loco would "always" (note the scare quotes) have different types at each end.

For example, 47052 had No.2 style marker lights at both ends.

[w124bob]

It's also worth noting that what is at one end might not be the same at the other, I seem to recall at least one 47 having a completely flush front at one end (accident repair?). Closely dated pictures of each end is you're only real guide.