Trainsmania exhibition in Lille

[ianp]

This very big exhibition is being staged in Lille by the publishers LR Presse, from Friday 28th to Sunday 30th April. I am making a day trip on the Saturday. Anyone else going? 

[Gordonwis]

This very big exhibition is being staged in Lille by the publishers LR Presse, from Friday 28th to Sunday 30th April. I am making a day trip on the Saturday. Anyone else going? 

 

 

Yep

 

The event is to mark the 80th anniversary of Loco Revue (which has evolved into 'LR Presse' in recent years). Perhaps surprisingly I see no mention of PECO joining in despite the long standing link between the two organisations with similar history

Edited April 19, 2017 by Gordonwis

[The Stationmaster]

What a time to find out about it - rather late to make arrangements alas and some of the layouts look really interesting (I see Pempoul will be there) plus Lille is a good place to eat out and stay plus do a spot of shopping if so inclined.

[Pacific231G]

Yep

 

The event is to mark the 80th anniversary of Loco Revue (which has evolved into 'LR Presse' in recent years). Perhaps surprisingly I see no mention of PECO joining in despite the long standing link between the two organisations with similar history

I didn't see you there Gordon, did you make it? It was so crowded on Saturday that even if you had been there I probably wouldn't have known.

 

I made a very late decision to go on Tuesday but was still able to get a Eurotunnel out today back tomorrow "day" return for about £50 with a very early start so was there on Friday afternoon (it opened at 12.00) and Saturday morning and bought my two day pass online before I left.It was actually fairly quiet on Friday so I was able to talk to a number of layout builders but far busier on Saturday.

 

It was an absolutely terrific show, certainly the best I've ever been to in France. LocoRevue had clearly pulled out all the stops for their 80th anniversary (I can think of only Model Railroader that's been going for longer-1934) and they did themselves proud.They'd also managed to gather a good number of layouts that they've featured in Loco Revue, Voie Libre or Clés pour le Train Miniature.  I gather that organising a show on this scale has been a fairly large financlal gamble for them so I hope it came off and that they're able to do it again.  I also thought their Train'in Box idea was interesting as a way of getting new people into the hobby.

 

Peco certainly did join in. Their exhibition stand was directly opposite the Loco-Revue hub which was also selling Peco products so the relationship was evident.  it's Peco Setrack that's being included in the Train'in Box. Peco also showed their  new bullhead track including the turnout (not yet in production) . France is probably the one significant market for bullhead track outside the UK. There may well have been as many if not more route miles laid with "double champignon" there than in Britain. Peco's new track is to scale for 00 of course so the sleepers will be a bit wide for H0 but the spacing should be alright.

 

Lille was a good location. It took me less than two hours to drive there from the tunnel but had I come by train the Grand Palais exhibition centre was two metro stops or a twenty minute walk (0.8miles) from Lille Europe station. As it was I dumped my car in a fairly secure multi-storey car park near my hotel in Tourcoing and used the rather dull but very efficient automatic VAL metro to make the 35min journey (€1.60) to and from the exhibition each day. A lot cheaper than staying in Lille centre.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Pacific231G

[Gordonwis]

Yep I was there Friday 12 - 2 ish (I spent Thursday afternoon and Friday morning and later afternoon linesiding freight at Hazebrouck and near Douai

 

Concentrated properly on the show all day Saturday.

 

There were lots of other 'usual suspects' around on Saturday...

[Barry Ten]

I visited on the Sunday and had a fine time.

 

I took a few photos, starting with the ever splendid Pempoul.

 

 

 

57 bis Rue Eiffefe, recently featured in Loco Revue - nice, compact urban layout.

 

 

 

 

Bourgogne 1500V. A really nice, long watching-the-trains-go-by type layout - hard to photograph, though!

 

 

The next four are of La Maurienne, a phenomenal layout depicting a stretch of 3rd rail electrified track on the line

from France to Italy.

 

 

 

 

 

There were plenty more very nice layouts, these are just the ones I managed to get decent-ish pics of.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the show and hope it was a success for the organisers.

 

 

 

[Mike Storey]

Bu88er. Missed it! 7 hour drive from here, so a hard sell. I have seen Bourgogne at an exhibition at Rochefort a few years ago, but I have still not yet seen Pempoul in the peau.

 

Really hope they did make a success of it!

[bécasse]

It wasn't just Pempoul that was there, this is me with my "croisée de l'étroit" caught by Francois Fontana at a quiet moment, most of the time it seemed more like Clapham Junction in the rush hour!

 

 

And for the unenlightened, this is LR Presse's explanation (in French, naturally) of "les croisées de l'étroit" of which they seem very proud, incredibly they occupied a total space 11 metres by 6, some layout in HOe. The photos on the banner were taken at RAMMA at Sedan in October 2015, which was the first get together, there was another in October 2016 at Laval.

 

Edited May 5, 2017 by bécasse

[dullsteamer]

That little slice of France looks rather nice. The water tower in particular interests me, is it scratchbuilt or from a kit?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

[bécasse]

That little slice of France looks rather nice. The water tower in particular interests me, is it scratchbuilt or from a kit?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Thanks for the kind comment. I do try to do my best.

 

The water tower is largely scratch built although the Ratio GWR water tank kit (in 4mm scale) provided the tank itself (I just happened to have a kit in my "spares" drawer and the tank was exactly the right size), the ladder and one or two other very minor bits and pieces (which could just as easily have been scratch built). It proved suprisingly difficult to source drawings for a typical French minor railway tower, even making full use of French language fora, but I must admit that I am pleased with the result. Oddly no Frenchman has ever commented on it.

[ianp]

That little slice of France looks rather nice. The water tower in particular interests me, is it scratchbuilt or from a kit?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

Artitec make a kit of something similar.

[dullsteamer]

Thanks for the kind comment. I do try to do my best.

 

The water tower is largely scratch built although the Ratio GWR water tank kit (in 4mm scale) provided the tank itself (I just happened to have a kit in my "spares" drawer and the tank was exactly the right size), the ladder and one or two other very minor bits and pieces (which could just as easily have been scratch built). It proved suprisingly difficult to source drawings for a typical French minor railway tower, even making full use of French language fora, but I must admit that I am pleased with the result. Oddly no Frenchman has ever commented on it.

Your water tank caught my eye because I'll need to build something similar for a project I'm slowly working on. So thanks for the description of what went into yours.

 

Artitec make a kit of something similar.

That's a nice looking model too, but perhaps a bit big for my purposes. But I saw a few other goodies on their website that could be useful, so thanks for the suggestion.

 

All the best to you both,

 

Mark.

[bluedepot]

wow some fantastic layouts in those pictures!

 

 

tim

[Pacific231G]

This very big exhibition is being staged in Lille by the publishers LR Presse, from Friday 28th to Sunday 30th April. I am making a day trip on the Saturday. Anyone else going?

What did you think of it Ian? Saturday did seem very busy. Someone I know who had a table in the secondhand bourse, which was open on the Saturday and Sunday but not the Friday, says he had a very successful weekend. Saturday wasn't so good for studying layouts or talking to their builders so I was glad to have made the Friday afternoon my main visit.

 

 

wow some fantastic layouts in those pictures!

tim

Tim, the pictures don't exagerate; the quality of modelling was often superb.

Of them all I think Gordon and Maggie Gravett's Pempoul still had the edge in that respect but I'd say the overall level of scenic and architectural modelling was rather higher than at most large British shows. What wasn't so good, and never is at French shows, was the standard of operation or rather the lack of it. The two British built layouts there, Pempoul and Mers les Bains, were being fully operated but apart from them I only saw significant shunting on Gaëlle and Olivier Taniou's H0 ATMAFER and one of the N gauge layouts that also represented  an industrial zone.

 

Though I didn't see it, I think Francois Joyau was doing a bit more than running trains through his 57bis Rue d'Eiffefe

 

 

Some of the microlayouts also had a sequence and I might have missed one or two other layouts that were operated rather than just run, 

 

In general though the French approach, at least for exhibtions,  seems to be more oriented towards creating beautifully modelled and often wonderfully detailed slices of la Belle France and then running trains through them than depicting the full operation of a railway.  I have seen some signs of that starting to change but fairly slowly.

 

In some ways the exhibition was a bit like visiting an art gallery and most layouts were using a proscenium type display.

 

Although narrow gauge trains and autorails (railcars) only passed or overtook one another at Jean Ville's small station I can't think of a more perfect spot for watching them than the cafe next to the church on Jan van Remmerden's beautifully atmospheric Oe layout.

 

Lille is very close to the Belgian border and several layouts came from there including at least two based on the country's once dense network of secondary "Vicinal" tramways.

 

 

For me,one of the show's real highlights was to actually see Gerard Voisin's model of Dieppe Maritime that I'd only seen in photographs. This wasn't just author's bias -though I have to admit that it did make my day when he told me at the show that it was my articles that inspired him to build it- but this now completely vanished marine station has fascinated me ever since travelling through it enroute to Paris in the early 1970s   

 

Gerard Voisin's model faithfully represents the buildings along the Quai Henri IV using a PC based photographic technique known as CLAP 2000 and was one of  a series of modules displayed by the Dieppe based club Littorail76. Their Modules 3000 standard uses a light box approach with different modules separated by short blank linking sections thus avoiding the problem of abrupt changes between modules while allowing multiple modules that can be a complete layout. Dieppe Mme. is two modules long.

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Pacific231G

[ianp]

What did you think of it Ian? Saturday did seem very busy. Someone I know who had a table in the secondhand bourse, which was open on the Saturday and Sunday but not the Friday, says he had a very successful weekend. Saturday wasn't so good for studying layouts or talking to their builders so I was glad to have made the Friday afternoon my main visit.

 

 

 

I wrote a review on this forum, dated 30th April. See below. I enjoyed it very much.

[Pacific231G]

I wrote a review on this forum, dated 30th April. See below. I enjoyed it very much.

Hi Ian

I didn't realise that you'd started a second Trainsmansia topic for your report and I generally follow topics rather than forums.  Anyway no matter and I'm glad you also enjoyed it. 

 

Hi Bécasse

I saw your module and particularly liked the building and water tower but I was rushing a bit by then and, because I've been there, another module based on the Isle de Re really grabbed my attention. Might we perhaps see it at ExpoNG but will  "les croisées de l'étroit" be at RailExpo towards the end of this year. As Expometrique, that once had a real focus on H0m and Om but I get the impression that there's now less enthusiasm in France for modelling true metre gauge with H0e and Oe becoming far more common. Though I may have missed some, the only H0m layouts I saw at Lille seemed to be based on the Belgian SNCV. Do you think that's down to the greater (and cheaper!) availability of N gauge material such as mechs, wheels and track or are there other factors?

Edited May 26, 2017 by Pacific231G

[JAMO]

Hi Ian

I didn't realise that you'd started a second Trainsmansia topic for your report and I generally follow topics rather than forums.  Anyway no matter and I'm glad you also enjoyed it. 

 

Hi Bécasse

I saw your module and particularly liked the building and water tower but I was rushing a bit by then and, because I've been there, another module based on the Isle de Re really grabbed my attention. Might we perhaps see it at ExpoNG but will  "les croisées de l'étroit" be at RailExpo towards the end of this year. As Expometrique, that once had a real focus on H0m and Om but I get the impression that there's now less enthusiasm in France for modelling true metre gauge with H0e and Oe becoming far more common. Though I may have missed some, the only H0m layouts I saw at Lille seemed to be based on the Belgian SNCV. Do you think that's down to the greater (and cheaper!) availability of N gauge material such as mechs, wheels and track or are there other factors?

 

 

Hello,

 

what you write is right: less metric gauge modelling in France than in the 80's and 90's.

 

The main reason I think (but it's my own idea) is the fashion. Here in France for anything the term of "fashion" is the word to use. We know that in modelling too.

 

The fashion of a scale/gauge depends of the magazines and the producers. After a few years, the people changes of way and is attracted by a new passion, a new fashion.

 

The new fashion is France now is OO9/HOe thanks to MinitrainS. We see a lot of people who is hooked by it. A friend of mine who isn't interested by narrow gauge has changed his mind and bought MinitrainS items! He would like to do "as the others". Voie Libre has been the motivator for the OO9/HOe passion in France creating the "Croisées de l'Etroit". But how long time this passion will stay alive? And what will be the next thema?

 

In England I find the passions, hobbies, modelling different in several points. For axample, I remember to find doll houses items and many other stuff in a Hobbycraft shop. Here in France we have modelled doll houses for a while and now all is disappeared. Shops were closed or have changed of items. People has changed his mind to another thema. In England it still exists! It's better! We can always find doll houses items. English people continue to model doll houses.

 

About operation: I must laugh, sorry. Here in France most of the modellers don't know what is operation and conception of a layout to operate.

They can build very nice and fantastic scenery but for operation: nothing or only a few attempts. In magazine we don't see articles about operation. It can be the reason nobody think to operate realisticly his layout.

In Trainsmania, Lille I saw (only a part of the exhibition) most of the layouts running trains in circles or linear go and return without any shunting. That's sad.

In England I've learnt a lot about modelling techniques and operation. The concept is totally different.

 

For french modellers (not all but most of them) a layout is loosing his interest when it's finished.

I think when the layout is considered as finished, it can begin to live.

 

All the best to all British modellers who like and model french trains

[Pacific231G]

Hello,

 

what you write is right: less metric gauge modelling in France than in the 80's and 90's.

 

The main reason I think (but it's my own idea) is the fashion. Here in France for anything the term of "fashion" is the word to use. We know that in modelling too.

 

The fashion of a scale/gauge depends of the magazines and the producers. After a few years, the people changes of way and is attracted by a new passion, a new fashion.

 

The new fashion is France now is OO9/HOe thanks to MinitrainS. We see a lot of people who is hooked by it. A friend of mine who isn't interested by narrow gauge has changed his mind and bought MinitrainS items! He would like to do "as the others". Voie Libre has been the motivator for the OO9/HOe passion in France creating the "Croisées de l'Etroit". But how long time this passion will stay alive? And what will be the next thema?

 

In England I find the passions, hobbies, modelling different in several points. For axample, I remember to find doll houses items and many other stuff in a Hobbycraft shop. Here in France we have modelled doll houses for a while and now all is disappeared. Shops were closed or have changed of items. People has changed his mind to another thema. In England it still exists! It's better! We can always find doll houses items. English people continue to model doll houses.

 

About operation: I must laugh, sorry. Here in France most of the modellers don't know what is operation and conception of a layout to operate.

They can build very nice and fantastic scenery but for operation: nothing or only a few attempts. In magazine we don't see articles about operation. It can be the reason nobody think to operate realisticly his layout.

In Trainsmania, Lille I saw (only a part of the exhibition) most of the layouts running trains in circles or linear go and return without any shunting. That's sad.

In England I've learnt a lot about modelling techniques and operation. The concept is totally different.

 

For french modellers (not all but most of them) a layout is loosing his interest when it's finished.

I think when the layout is considered as finished, it can begin to live.

 

All the best to all British modellers who like and model french trains Jamo

Bonjour Jack

Thanks for this very insightful posting.

I stopped subscribing to Voie Libre when too many of the articles became H0e,0e or even about British 009 layouts and there seemed to be less and less about the metre gauge railways I was really interested in. I suppose H0e requires far less space than H0m and because N is so popular and TT is not there is far more available just as with 0e and 16.5mm gauge mechanisms. It's curious though given that there were about 21 000kms of public metre gauge railways in France but only about 450kms of public 60cm railways (and just one 12km line using the 760mm represented by H0e)  

 

Loco-revue did run an interesting article in March on using a wagon card system for operating goods trains on a layout with just one junction station so perhaps there is hope yet and even a simple layout can provide interesting operation. I've also noticed that a number of home layouts featured in L-R use Kadee couplers which does suggest an interest in shunting and operating trains rather than just running them through the scenery. It is true though that of the eighty layouts at Trainsmania, I only saw shunting on perhaps six of them (including on a couple of the "Croisées de l'Etroit") and two of those were the British built layouts "Pempoul" and "Mers les Bains" . 

 

Perhaps it's time to introduce French modellers to "Inglenook Sidings"

Edited May 29, 2017 by Pacific231G

[JAMO]

Hello David,

 

Voie Libre has changed from the begining: they follow the "fashion" and they make the magazine with readers' work.

 

Yes you are totally right about french metric lines. We had a lot in France and only a few enthusiasts still model HOm. We had only industrial and a few 60 cm lines in France.

The production in metric gauge is very small and not well known. The problem is the price too. Metric in HOm or Om is very expensive and it's often kits but not RTR models.

 

MinitrainS has reached is goal selling OO9/HOe stock.

 

I'm not a subscriber of Voie Libre from a long time now. I buy this magazine only  when I find it interesting.

 

Voie Etroite magazine can be interesting for you. You'll find more metric gauge information but it's prototype trains. No modelling.

 

I remember during the 80's Loco-Revue was a creator of fashion with the HOm showing a lot of atmospheric layouts and boards about HOm. We saw Gecomodel and Mougel productions. It was very interesting.

 

My best loved HOm layout was Michel Denonfoux's Vivarais:

 

http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/loco-revue/numero-431-octobre-1981/page-28-29-texte-integral

 

Yes recently Loco-Revue has released an article about operation with cards. But it's only an article hidden in thousands.

 

KD is really easier to use than the continental coupler. Many enthusiasts like it now.

 

Jack

[ianp]

 

Yes you are totally right about french metric lines. We had a lot in France and only a few enthusiasts still model HOm. We had only industrial and a few 60 cm lines in France.

The production in metric gauge is very small and not well known. The problem is the price too. Metric in HOm or Om is very expensive and it's often kits but not RTR models.

 

Can you recommend any retailers in France who are good for HOm engines and rolling stock?

[Andy Hayter]

I fear the silence is going to be deafening, Ian. 

 

About the only rtr H0m suppliers you are going to find are those that stock Bemo (Pierre Dominique springs to mind as a retailer).  Not sure if Roco still have a few models and there may be some specialist German manufacturers, but in any case you will find nothing that is essentially French.

 

For French models you are straight into kit building or kit cut and shut (Editions Atlas have done a few static metre gauge models that could with some work be motorised.)

 

For kits from current manufacturers, Trains d'Antan is the one that immediately springs to mind.  Superb models when made up.   I have not done one so cannot comment on the ease or not, but the level of detail suggests a lot of detailed soldering/glueing.  Of course with fine detail comes a fine price - although from what I have seen it is money well spent.

 

Gecomodel and Interfer have in the past done H0m kits but they are rarely found on ebay.fr

 

http://newboutique.modele-reduit-train.com/index.php?

[JAMO]

Can you recommend any retailers in France who are good for HOm engines and rolling stock?

 

For HOm I know only Trains d'Antan:    http://newboutique.modele-reduit-train.com/index.php

Cyril Ducrocq's products are very good.

 

But you can find Bemo in Belgium of Germany at better price than in France.

 

This gaugeis the "parent pauvre" of the modelling in France. Metric gauge in general isn't very popular because it's hard to find something.

 

There is a special forum about metric enthusiasts: PME forum: http://www.passion-metrique.net/forums/

But it's in French.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by JAMO

[JAMO]

For less expenses, you can use Tillig or Bemo chassis in HOm and make your own bodies.

 

My idea is from a long time to model 1/60th scale which represent the metric gauge on 16.5 mm track. I'll can use cheap and reliable chassis from OO and HO scale.

 

Another possibility is to make Om (23 mm gauge). I still have Rimini models A80D Billard. I only need to build the trucks. But I have to build my track. A possibility to be faster is to use Peco OO turnouts and to widen them into 23 mm track.

[Pacific231G]

For less expenses, you can use Tillig or Bemo chassis in HOm and make your own bodies.

 

My idea is from a long time to model 1/60th scale which represent the metric gauge on 16.5 mm track. I'll can use cheap and reliable chassis from OO and HO scale.

 

Another possibility is to make Om (23 mm gauge). I still have Rimini models A80D Billard. I only need to build the trucks. But I have to build my track. A possibility to be faster is to use Peco OO turnouts and to widen them into 23 mm track.

Hi Jack

 

You might be able to get S scale track which at 22.43mm (0.833inches) scales out at 976mm for 1:43.5..I think Shinohara do track for it but that would be to US standards. it's a fairly popular scale for scratchbuilders in Britain- there were two or three S scale layouts at an exhibition I was at at last weekend- and the S Scale Society 

http://www.s-scale.org.uk  has track components and wheelsets but only for its members (£25 a year) I don't know how they'd react to  someone joining in order to get components for Om but the 3mm Society were quite happy a few years ago when I did that to get 12mm gauge components for H0m.

 

Are GEMME still active in France? I used to be a member when they organised Expometrique. They seemed to go a bit quiet when Travers des Secondaires broke away and took the exhibition with them and I lost touch with them.

[JAMO]

Hi David,

 

Yes the GEMME still exists. I'm not a member.

 

I don't like the Shinohara track. I like the Peco one. It's really better quality.

No problem to make my own track and turnouts. I still have built it for HOe, HO and O. Thank you.