Digital in older Ge 4/4 II question

[Kevin M]

I have an older Bemo Glacier Express set (7259 120) and I'd like to put a DCC decoder in the loco.  It has the 3 pole motor and it runs very well on DC with low amp draw.  Pulling 6 passenger coaches it draws less the 0.25amp up a 4.5% grade.   It looks like it will be a fairly simple install but I want to be sure there are not any unknown problems that I might run into.  My thought is to use a N/Z scale decoder and I will replace the light bulbs with LED's.  I have done several hardwired installs on US type locos but I learned a long time ago that it pays to ask questions before starting a different brand.

 

I am building a display layout and my original thought was to stay with DC but I want to be able to run two trains so that means a electrical block system or DCC.  And my On30 home layout is all digital using Digitrax.  

 

Just out of curiosity does anyone know what the little round things are above the headlights.  Goggle translate calls it a safety cell.  Both lights are good but one safety cell reads some resistance and the other no resistance.  The light does not work with the one with no resistance.

 

Any suggestions are welcome.

 

Thank you,

Kevin

 

 

[Salmotrutta]

I have done a Ge 4/4 I from a set I bought in the early 90's which looks very similar. I used a Digitrax DZ126 bare wire 2 function decoder which I can get for about $17 over here in the USA.  Once it was installed it ran with no problems. It even survived being on a DC layout with a "high frequency" rail cleaner in circuit - so they are pretty tough! I use warm white SMD LEDs on litz wires (surface mount) which I attach to plastic card with two part epoxy putty (Milliput or similar) and wedge them in place with blu-tack. I would suggest doing all the wiring then experiment with the positioning of the LEDs using blu-tack on the plastic card to get the correct orientation before making it permanent with epoxy.  The DZ126 can be set up to dim the bulb of the trailing lights - not sure if it's prototypical but I like it. I have also used bi-colour SMD LEDs so that I have red trailing lights - again looks pretty. On one model the bulb size is the same as a "normal" LED so I just stuffed that into the hole and it worked (ABe 4/4 Triebwagen) but the alignment on the Ge 4/4 I is a bit different as the light needs to go sideways.

 

Like DM I am tending to cut the existing circuit board and use that for making connections. I used the chassis for common return on a couple of models but I think DM is correct  that is is better practice in DCC to use the blue wire as your common for the lights. I just finished a sound installation (ESU Loksound micro V4) in a 1996 Ge 4/4 III where I just removed all the "gubbins" and cut the remaining tracks to use as solder pads and isolated the common return from the rest of the board.  I'll post some pictures of that installation soon.

 

I got the SMD LEDs from a well-know auction site direct from China, but I believe that there are stockists in the UK - at least when I was looking I seemed to get UK sites!

[Kevin M]

Thanks guys.  I always tend to be over cautious when working on a locomotive.  My main concern was that the motor might be electrically attached to the frame somewhere that I have not found.  I haven't ruined one yet but there is always a first time.

 

DM, I think one of the diodes is dead and I have a feeling they are hard to get here in the states.  I have an excess of LED's that came from a Xmas light string.  Bought them at Walmart after Xmas sale cheap.    I'll either use a ESU LocPilot Micro or a NCE N scale decoder.  Either one is rated high enough for my needs.

 

Samotrutta, I have been experimenting with the LED's already and found the sweet spot for the lights.  Thanks for the tip on blu-tack, I never thought of that before.  I would like to see your installation photos.

 

Thanks again,

 

Kevin

[Salmotrutta]

Thanks guys.  I always tend to be over cautious when working on a locomotive.  My main concern was that the motor might be electrically attached to the frame somewhere that I have not found.  I haven't ruined one yet but there is always a first time.

 

DM, I think one of the diodes is dead and I have a feeling they are hard to get here in the states.  I have an excess of LED's that came from a Xmas light string.  Bought them at Walmart after Xmas sale cheap.    I'll either use a ESU LocPilot Micro or a NCE N scale decoder.  Either one is rated high enough for my needs.

 

Samotrutta, I have been experimenting with the LED's already and found the sweet spot for the lights.  Thanks for the tip on blu-tack, I never thought of that before.  I would like to see your installation photos.

 

Thanks again,

 

Kevin

HI Kevin - I started a new post in this forum in case anyone else is contemplating DCC in BEMO. I know there is a DCC forum but I'm sure  anyone who might be interested will swing by here too! - cheers Richard

[Kevin M]

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks for posting that.  I have a LokPilot Micro on order and will try to remember to take pictures as I install it.  I already have this decoder in one of my On30 locos and really like it.

 

Kevin 

[Kevin M]

Here is my final result.  I used a ESU LokPilot Micro.  I tried to use the original lights but the motor must not be completely isolated from the chassis because the lights acted very strangely.  I used LED's instead with a shim in the bottom of the light well to hold the LED in the proper position to get the best lighting.  To enclose the top I had some 3mm black PVC that I cut to fit and drilled holes for the LED leads to poke through.  As you may notice I have a tendency to leave long wire leads.  It looks a bit messy but the final result is everything works as I hoped it would.

 

Kevin

 

 

[Salmotrutta]

Here is my final result.  I used a ESU LokPilot Micro.  I tried to use the original lights but the motor must not be completely isolated from the chassis because the lights acted very strangely.  I used LED's instead with a shim in the bottom of the light well to hold the LED in the proper position to get the best lighting.  To enclose the top I had some 3mm black PVC that I cut to fit and drilled holes for the LED leads to poke through.  As you may notice I have a tendency to leave long wire leads.  It looks a bit messy but the final result is everything works as I hoped it would.

 

Kevin

 

HI Kevin, did you cut through the track next to screw securing the circuit board closest to the camera? That is grounded to the chassis otherwise. I will steal your idea of the black PVC for my next install.

[Kevin M]

Gordon, yes I did make the cut.  It is just under the edge of the tape next to the solder point.  I also cut the trace between the two lights.  The problem I had using the common to the chassis was: Forward light worked as it was supposed to, on in forward, off in reverse.  The rear lights would always stay on and very dim.  I tried two different decoders just to be sure.  The Bemo lights did not have leads, they used the chassis as the ground.  Anyway with the LED's completely isolated they work perfectly.  I did have to move the two LED leads that go over the top of the circuit board to the side so the shell would fit properly.  The heat shrink added just a bit to much thickness to the wires to clear.

 

For my next locomotive I want to get a Crocodile and I think I'll cheat and try to find one with the DCC already installed.

 

Kevin

[Salmotrutta]

Gordon, yes I did make the cut.  It is just under the edge of the tape next to the solder point.  I also cut the trace between the two lights.  The problem I had using the common to the chassis was: Forward light worked as it was supposed to, on in forward, off in reverse.  The rear lights would always stay on and very dim.  I tried two different decoders just to be sure.  The Bemo lights did not have leads, they used the chassis as the ground.  Anyway with the LED's completely isolated they work perfectly.  I did have to move the two LED leads that go over the top of the circuit board to the side so the shell would fit properly.  The heat shrink added just a bit to much thickness to the wires to clear.

 

For my next locomotive I want to get a Crocodile and I think I'll cheat and try to find one with the DCC already installed.

 

Kevin

Hi Kevin - I can post my croc DCC install if you like. So that gives you a bit more scope for buying; especially as there aren't that many DCC ones around!

[Kevin M]

Thanks guys. Every photo and tip is greatly appreciated. I'm sure I will be able to install a decoder in whatever model I find. I am always just a little reluctant to open up a perfectly good model, especially expensive locos. Cheaper Bachmann locos I open up as soon as I get them and replace the decoder.

[Salmotrutta]

Thanks guys. Every photo and tip is greatly appreciated. I'm sure I will be able to install a decoder in whatever model I find. I am always just a little reluctant to open up a perfectly good model, especially expensive locos. Cheaper Bachmann locos I open up as soon as I get them and replace the decoder.

I stopped worrying about opening up locos once I found out that BEMO do spares..

[Salmotrutta]

They do indeed, and it helps if you can converse with them in German   (although I do understand that email in English will be replied to too )  Having said that, even in German they not always understand what you're saying: I had a back-order of a particular part for about a decade, after which I found out the model was no longer available. So, after a while a redesigned model came to market and I promptly ordered the replacement part I needed, explicitly stating I needed the OLD version as I already found out the new version wasn't suitable due to a difference in construction of said model. So I got a new version part, luckily w/o charge though *raiseshandstoheavenindespair*

My German is very weak so I use Google Translate. I also add a note that this is what I have done just in case I've said anything weird.