Croydon tramlink driver falls asleep

[Budgie]

A Croydon Tramlink driver has been suspended for falling asleep at the controls of a tram.

 

See http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/croydon-tram-passenger-tells-of-concern-for-daughters-safety-after-waking-dribbling-driver-asleep-at-a3543971.html

[JDW]

Oh dear, not good news for Tramlink. I can't help but wonder why the person filming didn't do something more than film though - if that were me and a tram/bus/train driver were slumped over, I'd be banging on the door or trying to open it to see if they were ok, not just getting my phone out.  Yes, they might have nodded off, as bad as that is in itself, but it could have been something much more serious and he might have needed medical help.

[phil-b259]

Oh dear, not good news for Tramlink. I can't help but wonder why the person filming didn't do something more than film though - if that were me and a tram/bus/train driver were slumped over, I'd be banging on the door or trying to open it to see if they were ok, not just getting my phone out.  Yes, they might have nodded off, as bad as that is in itself, but it could have been something much more serious and he might have needed medical help.

 

Erm... thats exactly what passengers did do!

 

(They noticed the traffic light ahead had gone green and assumed the tram should be moving off and started banging on the cab when they noticed it wasn't moving and the driver appeared to be asleep)

 

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39975647

 

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39457148

Edited May 19, 2017 by phil-b259

[imt]

From this and previous reporting, it's very easy to come to the conclusion that Croydon tram drivers going to sleep is something they do all the time.  I am beginning to think that there may be more to it than just that. Might it be shift patterns, atmosphere in the cabs, lack of stimulation - I know not what.  It isn't just one driver as far as I can tell (though really what do I know?).  I do hope we get some clearly thought out investigation and reporting soon, because it must be worrying the bejabers out of passengers, drivers and their employers!

[JDW]

Erm... thats exactly what passengers did do!

 

(They noticed the traffic light ahead had gone green and assumed the tram should be moving off and started banging on the cab when they noticed it wasn't moving and the driver appeared to be asleep)

 

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39975647

 

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39457148

 

From what I saw in the video they were filming him with no other action for at least 20-30 seconds, I think I'd be doing something other than filming in that situation.  I'd be banging on the glass, or opening the door if it's unlocked, "Driver, are you ok?", not sat there thinking "Oh, he's asleep, let's film it for Facebook".  If it's more serious than falling asleep, those seconds count.

 

Certainly, you have to wonder what's causing it though.  I'd guess shift patterns might have something to do with it, and as imt says above, maybe lack of fresh air in the cab?

[jjb1970]

This is worrying and we can only hope that the operator is working hard to establish why this is happening. Is it a problem with shift patterns? A technical issue with the cab environment? A disciplinary issue with staff?

[russ p]

There does seem to be an underlying problem with drivers falling asleep on this system, I wonder if the cab is always at the same temperature as the saloon rather than what the driver wants. There should also be the option of opening a window to let fresh air in.

This is before shift patterns and diagrams are studied.

[stewartingram]

But how else can you get a decent video to upload to Facebook? If you wake him up it would spoil it.

 

Stewart

[jim.snowdon]

From this and previous reporting, it's very easy to come to the conclusion that Croydon tram drivers going to sleep is something they do all the time.  I am beginning to think that there may be more to it than just that. Might it be shift patterns, atmosphere in the cabs, lack of stimulation - I know not what.  It isn't just one driver as far as I can tell (though really what do I know?).  I do hope we get some clearly thought out investigation and reporting soon, because it must be worrying the bejabers out of passengers, drivers and their employers!

It appears to be a relatively recent phenomenon, and certainly wasn't something I was aware of when, as part of TCL, I worked on the system, up to TfL's takeover in 2008. I have no doubt that questions will be asked of both TOL and TfL by RAIB as part of the current investigation. It is not just about driver management and shift patterns, but their questions may also look at issues such as how well the drivers themselves are compying with the Safety Critical hours regulations.

 

Jim

[The Johnster]

It's happened too often on this particular tram system to be a repeated incidence of drivers not complying with regulations or misbehaving in other ways, unless one purports that Croydon employs a particularly badly behaved or late night party animal bunch of drivers compared to other systems.  I would be checking shift patterns, monitoring alcohol or drug issues, cab ventilation, heating, seat posture, and ride quality (a poor ride is physically tiring over a full shift), and wondering if full-size railway type deadman's equipment is necessary.  But I regretfully suspect that the employer will simply enforce the rules against falling asleep in the cab without finding out what is really going on.  Glad I don't have to ride this accident waiting to happen!

[The Stationmaster]

It's happened too often on this particular tram system to be a repeated incidence of drivers not complying with regulations or misbehaving in other ways, unless one purports that Croydon employs a particularly badly behaved or late night party animal bunch of drivers compared to other systems.  I would be checking shift patterns, monitoring alcohol or drug issues, cab ventilation, heating, seat posture, and ride quality (a poor ride is physically tiring over a full shift), and wondering if full-size railway type deadman's equipment is necessary.  But I regretfully suspect that the employer will simply enforce the rules against falling asleep in the cab without finding out what is really going on.  Glad I don't have to ride this accident waiting to happen!

 

With various inquiries going on the employer might not get a chance to dodge his safety responsibilities and i'd be extending the net even wider than you've suggested as n wonder if swapping of turns might also be a factor along with overtime and so on.  Clearly a rather large nest of vipers lurking under the Tramlink stone (or a lot of public over-reaction, I suspect not).