Kings Cross in steam days

[clecklewyke]

I have been looking at the Kings Cross signal box diagram and I note that most main line platforms had loco release  crossovers controlled by locked ground frames. The plan is dated 1971 but I presume was not much changed from the 1950s.

 

Does anyone have details of these ground frames: were they fitted between the tracks and if so were the tracks at the normal 6'spacing - seems a bit tight!

 

I imagine most long distance trains required their coaches to be serviced at nearby carriage sidings (at Belle Isle?), so there would be a lot of light engine and empty coaching stock workings and the release crossovers would be little sed.

If this is so then I guess that the sequence of operations for most arrivals would be:

 

1. express arrives

2. loco put in reverse

3 loco uncouples

4. pilot attaches to rear of train.

5. e.c.s. to carriage sidings (Belle Isle?) leaving train loco at buffers

6. train loco runs up to starter signal

7. train loco runs l.e. to Top Shed

 

And for departures:

 

1. e.c.s arrives in platform behind pilot

2. pilot put in reverse

3. pilot uncouples

4. train engine arrives l.e. from Top Shed and couples to train

5. train departs

6. pilot runs up to starter signal

7. pilot runs l.e. to Top Shed for servicing or to carriage sidings 

 

Is this basically correct or were there more movements such as carriages being propelled into platforms or the pilot banking the train out of the station?

 

And yes, I've missed out coupling brake and heating pipes, brake testing etc. as these cannot be reproduced in 1:76 scale.

So, what were the coossovers used for? Releasing pilots or train locos on shorter distance workingsAny comments welcome.

 

Ian (Who has a very good reason for needing this information - think cameo...)

[john new]

Don't forget KX  had a small loco depot to the west of the station throat and south of the tunnels. I don't know the sequence, as never spent much time there spotting, but I think it was more complicated than you suggest with engines going on to the depot for servicing and that was ongoing at least into the Deltic era..

[Rivercider]

Here is a picture taken from the stop blocks in 1963 which shows a crossover, albeit not very clearly

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotolibrary/8509963106/in/photolist-bA4gmT-GT71Cv-dXZMxQ

 

 

edit - and another photo different angle in 1977

https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/8377222472/in/photolist-dLgsod-9nwrVZ-Rg7CN1 

 

cheers

Edited June 11, 2017 by Rivercider

[The Stationmaster]

An oddity (to my mind) in the 1939 layout at Kings Cross is that three of the pairs of Main Line side platforms had a release crossover for one of those platform lines but on the Suburban side there were no release crossovers at all.

[Ian Hargrave]

Don't forget KX  had a small loco depot to the west of the station throat and south of the tunnels. I don't know the sequence, as never spent much time there spotting, but I think it was more complicated than you suggest with engines going on to the depot for servicing and that was ongoing at least into the Deltic era..

 

 

And achieved some smart turn round times as I recall......turning,coaling ( I still remember the loud clatter that could make ) and watering...all in view from the end of spotters nirvana which was Platform 10. One smart operation was with Copley Hill A1's which would arrive with an up Leeds/Bradford and then depart North within what seemed a very short timescale on the same.Happy days.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

An oddity (to my mind) in the 1939 layout at Kings Cross is that three of the pairs of Main Line side platforms had a release crossover for one of those platform lines but on the Suburban side there were no release crossovers at all.

 Space was very tight on the suburban side for the train lengths required for the traffic, and with all compartmented non-gangwayed stock on the suburban services all the coaches had to be on the platform. No room for a release.

 

...Is this basically correct or were there more movements such as carriages being propelled into platforms or the pilot banking the train out of the station?...

 Normal operation was loco leading the ecs into the platform, and I don't recall seeing an exception; but then I was only a young passing passenger and occasional spotter, and not a railwayman. With a falling gradient and greasy rails through the tunnels into the station throat (itself often hazy with smoke and condensate), and only circa 1500 feet from Gas works tunnel portal to the main line platform stops, it would have been a mite hairy if the ecs move was propelling?

 

There was provision for the loco that had worked the ecs in, to provide banking assistance for 'a few carriage lengths if necessary'. (It never was of course, what with Doncaster's puissant power.) Famously an A4 well inside Gas Works tunnel and standing therefore on the 1 in 105, lifted twenty-five coaches unassisted out of KX during WWII.

[Ken.W]

4. pilot attaches to rear of train.

5. e.c.s. to carriage sidings (Belle Isle?) leaving train loco at buffers

6. train loco runs up to starter signal

 

Normal method of working for terminal / bay platforms  in general, when one loco has worked the train in and another then takes the stock out, and according to the rules, was that the inward loco would uncouple from the train and  wait ready, then closely follow the departing train down the platform, under permissive working, as far as the platform starting signal where it would stop and wait for the route to be reset for it's own onward move. As such platforms are permissively worked this is to avoid the chance of the loco becoming trapped in again by the next inward working, and if the loco failed to follow it's train down the platform for any reason the signalman had to be contacted for permission to move.

 

Regarding Kings X, as I understand, the carriage sidings were further out in the Ferme Park / Hornsea areas, the Belle Isle area led to Kings X Goods and the Shed. The station loco yard was to deal with locos on short turn rounds before working back home to reduce congestion with light engine moves through the tunnels, and 'Top Shed' dealt with home locos and others on longer turn rounds

[ROY@34F]

Normal method of working for terminal / bay platforms  in general, when one loco has worked the train in and another then takes the stock out, and according to the rules, was that the inward loco would uncouple from the train and  wait ready, then closely follow the departing train down the platform, under permissive working, as far as the platform starting signal where it would stop and wait for the route to be reset for it's own onward move. As such platforms are permissively worked this is to avoid the chance of the loco becoming trapped in again by the next inward working, and if the loco failed to follow it's train down the platform for any reason the signalman had to be contacted for permission to move.

 

Regarding Kings X, as I understand, the carriage sidings were further out in the Ferme Park / Hornsea areas, the Belle Isle area led to Kings X Goods and the Shed. The station loco yard was to deal with locos on short turn rounds before working back home to reduce congestion with light engine moves through the tunnels, and 'Top Shed' dealt with home locos and others on longer turn rounds

 

I was on loan to top shed as passed cleaner, from Grantham,  firing all of the two years I was there from dec.'58 to dec.'60.

Ken.W. is correct in his first paragraph. The incoming express engine crew would normally get relieved by young top shed drivers and firemen, wait for the train to go by a N2 or L1 engine, always for express formations, to Bounds Green carriage sidings (on the up side between Wood Green and Hornsey), propelled slowly through the washers, and into sidings for cleaning etc. The train engine in KX would then go to Belle Isle right over to the down side , and then forward up to top shed, onto the turntable first of course before disposal/fire cleaning etc. 

As Ken says there was a Leeds crew return job with one of their A1 engines . I have been the unfortunate fireman sometimes having to recondition the engine. Involving cleaning the fire, which was very hot and heavy work in the confines of the station loco, and then gradually build the fire up again, coal and water and turn the engine. The A1s were fortunately fitted with rocking grates, and hopper ashpans, which were a godsend but it was still a rough hour or two's bloody hard work and all go once we got in the small loco area.  The driver would check the engine over and oil up.

Of course the empty stock was brought into KX by the tank engines and wait for the train to go before the next move on their diagram, perhaps taking another incoming express empty stock out to Bounds Green, or sometimes work a suburban train before or after the Bounds Green empty stock job. There were 2, if not 3 sometimes, KX shunt jobs, which would often involve empty stock workings in their diagrams or sometimes extra trains needed to be dealt with as required.

   In my time there I don't recall the crossovers being used at the platform ends.

Empty suburban stock was dealt with at Holloway carriage sidings, on the down side of Holloway bank, or some at Finsbury Park, on the up side north of the station.

Hope this is of interest to you chaps.

 

Regards, Roy.