Another set of questions about signalling a blt

[The Johnster]

I should know some of the answers to these questions, but I have got myself in a muddle and need sorting out.  My blt, South Wales in the 1950s, let's call it Cwmdimabath because that's it's name, is a single line branch leading into a station at the end of a single line section, with a run around loop with a goods siding off it and two kickback sidings, one from the loop and one from the platform road.  I am reasonably happy about the signals I have or intend to use to control it; my questions are about single line working.  This is something I understand the basic principles of, probably better than the staff at Abermule did in 1921, which is not saying much.  But I am familiar with the concept that the driver of a train occupying the single line section has a staff or token in his possession which gives him both the authority to be there and reassurance that nobody else is driving a train there, and that this staff or token had been given to him by a signalman in a box at the end of the section he has come from, and that it is only available to be released from the block instruments when the interlocking allows this.

 

What possible questions could somebody with such clear erudition in the matter want answered, you ask.  Ok, here goes.  At the end of Cwmdimbath signalman's shift, he locks the box out and leaves the road set for the platform and his home and starter signals both cleared for the use of auto train services in the evening after he has gone home.  In the morning, the first train up the valley is a miner's workman's which needs to run around in order to work ecs back, which it cannot do until the early shift signalman turns up and switches the box in.  At this point, I assume the signalman returns the home and starter to danger.  Does the driver of the workman's, now an ecs, have the staff/token on him at this time?

 

I ask this because I want the next train up to be the first service auto of the day, and I want to put the miner's/ecs in the kickback off the platform road out of the way while the auto arrives.  if the driver of the miner's has the staff/token when he arrives, he can give it to the signalman, but what authority did the auto driver have to come up?  If the auto driver brings the staff/token, what authority did the miners' driver have to come up?  Did he need any more authority than the branch being at that point a long siding worked one engine in steam?

 

Now I get myself in a proper mess, because the miner's/ecs remains in the kickback and the next arrival, which follows it up the branch, is another ecs, eventually to form another workman's, this time for the ROF factory at Tremains just outside Bridgend (such trains actually ran from Abergwnfi).  The auto does not depart until the arrival of this ecs, which is routed into the loop until the auto leaves, presumably with the staff/token.  There are now 3 trains at Cwmdimbath, and no train has gone down the valley with or without a token yet, and only one token (or are there more in the block instrument in the siganlbox?), which departs with the auto right away Bridgend. leaving two trains and no staff/token.  What now happens is that the Tremains loco runs around and shunts it's stock into the platform road, and is, after a decent interval, right away Tremains.  Where does it's staff/token come from; if there's only one, the auto took it down the valley and we are stuck until another train comes up with it.  

 

After it's departure, the miner's ecs emerges from the kickback and runs around, ready to depart right away Tondu, and eventually the first coal train of the day appears with the token enabling it to do so.  The rest of the sequence is mostly train up, train down and presents no problems as to staff/tokens, but in the evening rush hour there is another sequence of trains following each other up and down the valley.  How is this done, can it be done, or isn't it/can't it?

 

The coal train brings up another problem.  The entrance to the colliery sidings is accessed by a ground frame about a quarter of a mile down the valley (Cwmdimbath is highly unusual for South Wales in having a dead end buffer stop in the passenger station and no railway continuing past it in any form).  This ground frame only exists in my imagination, of course, but has to be taken into account.  If a train of empties arrives and sets back into the colliery sidings through the ground frame, worked by it's guard and released from Cwmdimbath signalbox (or with the token acting as the key), it can lock itself in out of the way and shunt out the colliery before asking to come out to play on the real railway with the loadeds through the ground frame, but it must have a token to get there in the first place.  Does that mean that the entire branch is on stop while it shunts the colliery out despite it being locked in there, as the token is locked in there with it and nobody else can get at it, can they?

 

I should know this stuff, and did once, or thought I did; I should have paid more attention to block regulations and single line working rather than being happy to go where the signals told the driver he could go!

Edited June 15, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

I should know some of the answers to these questions, but I have got myself in a muddle and need sorting out.  My blt, South Wales in the 1950s, let's call it Cwmdimabath because that's it's name, is a single line branch leading into a station at the end of a single line section, with a run around loop with a goods siding off it and two kickback sidings, one from the loop and one from the platform road.  I am reasonably happy about the signals I have or intend to use to control it; my questions are about single line working.  This is something I understand the basic principles of, probably better than the staff at Abermule did in 1921, which is not saying much.  But I am familiar with the concept that the driver of a train occupying the single line section has a staff or token in his possession which gives him both the authority to be there and reassurance that nobody else is driving a train there, and that this staff or token had been given to him by a signalman in a box at the end of the section he has come from, and that it is only available to be released from the block instruments when the interlocking allows this.

 

What possible questions could somebody with such clear erudition in the matter want answered, you ask.  Ok, here goes.  At the end of Cwmdimbath signalman's shift, he locks the box out and leaves the road set for the platform and his home and starter signals both cleared for the use of auto train services in the evening after he has gone home.  In the morning, the first train up the valley is a miner's workman's which needs to run around in order to work ecs back, which it cannot do until the early shift signalman turns up and switches the box in.  At this point, I assume the signalman returns the home and starter to danger.  Does the driver of the workman's, now an ecs, have the staff/token on him at this time?

 

I ask this because I want the next train up to be the first service auto of the day, and I want to put the miner's/ecs in the kickback off the platform road out of the way while the auto arrives.  if the driver of the miner's has the staff/token,when he arrives, he can give it to the signalman  but what authority did the auto driver have to come up?  If the auto driver brings the staff/token, what authority did the miners' driver have to come up?  Did he need any more authority than the branch being at that point a long siding worked one engine in steam?

 

Now I get myself in a proper mess, because the miner's/ecs remains in the kickback and the next arrival is another ecs, eventually to form another workman's, this time for the ROF factory at Tremains just outside Bridgend (such trains actually ran from Abergwnfi).  The auto does not depart until the arrival of this ecs, which is routed into the loop until the auto leaves, presumably with the staff/token.  There are now 3 trains at Cwmdimbath and only one token (or are there more in the block instrument in the siganlbox?), which departs with the auto right away Bridgend. leaving two trains and no staff/token.  What now happens is that the Tremains loco runs around and shunts it's stock into the platform road, and is, after a decent interval, right away Tremains.  Where does it's staff/token come from; if there's only one, the auto took it down the valley and we are stuck until another train comes up with it.  

 

After it's departure, the miner's ecs emerges from the kickback and runs around, ready to depart right away Tondu, and eventually the first coal train of the day appears with the token enabling it to do so.  The rest of the sequence is mostly train up, train down and presents no problems as to staff/tokens, but in the evening rush hour there is another sequence of trains following each other up and down the valley.  How is this done, or isn't it?

 

The coal train brings up another problem.  The entrance to the colliery sidings is accessed by a ground frame about a quarter of a mile down the valley (Cwmdimbath is highly unusual for South Wales in having a dead end buffer stop in the passenger station and no railway continuing past it in any form).  This ground frame only exists in my imagination, of course, but has to be taken into account.  If a train of empties arrives and sets back into the colliery sidings through the ground frame, worked by it's guard and released from Cwmdimbath signalbox, it can lock itself in out of the way and shunt out the colliery before asking to come out to play on the real railway with the loadeds through the ground frame, but it must have a token to get there in the first place.  Does that mean that the entire branch is on stop while it shunts the colliery out despite it being locked in there, as the token is locked in there with it and nobody else can get at it, can they?

 

I should know this stuff, and did once, or thought I did; I should have paid more attention to block regulations and single line working rather than being happy to go where the signals told the driver he could go!

[The Johnster]

I've answered some of my own questions with a bit of googling; a sequence of trains in the same direction following each other through a single line section worked by staff or token is managed by means of the signalbox at the block post at the start point of the section issuing 'tickets' to the drivers of all the trains except the last one, which carries the staff/token.  The tickets authorise the driver, who has seen and confirmed that the staff/token is at the originating signalbox and thus cannot be in the possession of a driver of a train coming the other way, to proceed through the section when the signals clear.  I did know this once and had forgotten it.  

 

Do drivers holding tickets have to hand them in to the signalman at the block post at the end point of the section?

 

In my example, the first train of the day up the valley, the miner's workman's, is operating under 'one engine in steam' conditions and does not need a staff/token or a ticket.  When the signalbox at Cwmdimbath switches in, it is now under staff/token and ticket regulations, and could presumably not return down the valley without a staff or token, and cannot be issued with a ticket as the staff/token is at the other end of the section, but this is of no concern as it is put away in the kickback for a while, and can be given a ticket or the staff/token when it is due to leave ecs.  

 

I am still unsure of the procedure regarding ground frames and 'locking in' with them, but presumably a ticket could be issued to cover the coal empties' journey from the junction box to the ground frame.  Alternatively, if the ground frame is just inside the protection of an outer home signal, and precedes the advanced starter which I have to imagine the presence of to legally perform some of my shunting moves, then it is not in the section at all and can be released electrically from the signal box on request by the train's guard on the ground frame telephone.  Once 'inside' the colliery sidings, the guard can put the frame back and inform the box which electrically locks it until he wants to come out; other traffic is now able to use the line.  This raises the issue that, if the empty coal train is not issued with a ticket but carries the staff/token as the last of a series of trains travelling through the section in that direction, it must first come up to the station to hand it to the Cwmdimbath signalman; this would mean I will have to model two coal trains, one loaded and one empty, as both must visit the station and run around.  I am going to have to keep a mental tally of where my staff/token is, and of where my empty coal train, currently as imaginary as the outer home, advance starter, ground frame and colliery, is as well!

 

Not as easy as it looks, this single line working, but I still think I'm doing better than they did at Abermule...

Edited June 16, 2017 by The Johnster

[Dunsignalling]

The whole point of Token Block signalling is that only one token can be out of the machines at one time. Tickets are only issued in event of the system failing. Staff and Ticket is a whole different way of doing things and doesn't involve tokens.

 

Here's how it works, lets call your Station Box C (its initial) and assume the section is from Box B.

 

To get your three trains at C:

 

Train 1 arrives with token from B, surrenders token to Signalman who inserts it into his instrument.

 

Signalman at Box B can now obtain a token to send the second train.

 

The process is repeated when Train 2 arrives at C to allow the Signalman at B to issue a token for Train 3.

 

Switching out / Box closing

 

The only condition under which a signal box at a terminus can normally close is when there are no trains. I am not aware that it is permitted to effectively change the mode of signalling to One Engine In Steam (nowadays called One Train Working) at certain times of the day (though I suppose it might have been in the past). Your own post points out the anomalies that can arise when changing back and anomalies create the risk of error and accident.  Switching out of boxes happens at through stations where trains continue to run during the night but reduced traffic density requires fewer sections.  All signals must be returned to danger before the Box can switch back in.

 

Your layout is a branch terminus, so the box at C can just close (with all signals at danger) once the two signalmen have verified that all tokens are back in the instruments, no switching out, just an exchange of 7-5-5.

 

Also, it will confuse the hell out of everybody if you use the term "Single Line Working" when you mean "Working of a Single Line". The former refers to moving traffic in both directions over one line of a double track railway. 

 

Hope this helps

 

John   

Edited June 16, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Ray H]

There are several methods of single line working and for the purpose of this exercise I presume we can ignore the more modern ones of RTB and the like.

 

There is Staff and (paper) ticket where, much like a Single Line Working Pilotman, the staff has to be present at the ticket issuing location for as long as tickets are being issued for trains to travel away from the train staff. To the best of my knowledge there is no upward limit to the number of such tickets that are issued. Obviously a paper ticket cannot have anything attached to it to unlock ground frames and the like.

 

I have it in my mind that there was such a thing as a divisible train staff where bits of the train staff were detached and issued in lieu of (paper) tickets. It may be that this could be organised in such a way that the (metal) tickets could have keys to ground frames and the like attached thereto.

 

In both the above the (body of the) train staff is issued to the last train in a sequence of trains travelling in the same direction. The whole process can be repeated in the opposite direction once the staff together with all the tickets have reached the far end of the section. I am not sure who is responsible for issuing the tickets although one presumes that there would at least be a signalman at one end of the section.

 

There is One Engine in Steam which does what it says on the tin - only allows one engine anywhere on the single line at a time.

 

There is the staff/token system to which you have already referred.

 

The narrow gauge railways of North Wales had remote operator facilities where signallers were not (always) required to be present. The engine crew were responsible for operating the token instruments themselves and could do so even when the "box" at the far end of the section was unmanned. I believe that such a system was also available on BR.

 

There were also (as I understand it) remote token machines - remote as in not in but paired with those in a location's signalbox. These allowed a train driver to withdraw a token from the remote machine with the signaller's permission. The idea of these machines being that they avoided the signaller a long walk between the signalbox and the front of the train.

 

There were also instances where token instruments/block instruments were located in other than the signalbox, e.g. the station building, although I don't know whether this ancient(?) custom was still evident in the mid 20th century.

 

So to answer your question there appears to be the wherewithal to do what you want although I can't say whether it could be achieved without a signaller to supervise things. One has to ask whether in these circumstances it would have been the practice to employ a signaller during the period of the day when the branch was largely being operated under one engine in steam arrangements and the signaller not being rostered during period(s) when there were several trains at "their" station.

 

It certainly wasn't unknown for staff to be employed for a full shift when they were only required to actually "do anything" for a a short period within their turn of duty. I can think of at least one signalbox where the signalman only handled a minimum number of trains at the extremes of their duty and did nothing in between.

 

I'm sure others will add to or correct any of the above that is incomplete/inaccurate.

[RailWest]

Rather than try to deal with all the issues in detail, a few quick 'key points' :-

 

1. You can't simply shut a signal-box and then leave a train to run OES without any form of staff etc. Even OES used a staff as proof to the driver of his right to occupy the section.

 

2. The arrival Home and departure Starting signal(s) control conflicting movements and therefore normally can not be 'off' together. In cases where the SBs at terminal stations often switched-out, then there would be a 'Switching Out' or 'King' or 'Interlocking' lever (choose your nomenclature as you prefer :-) ) that would remove that interlocking while the box was closed. A common method then was for the King lever to be released by the normal staff/token and, when reversed, to lock that in place and release a specific OES staff instead. But that means your OES would then have to be taken back to the junction on the last train of the day, if the first one next day starts from the junction.

 

3. All this talk about 'remote operators' on token machines on Welsh NG lines etc IMHO is a red herring, as such things are a 'modern invention' unlikely to have been seen on BR in the 1950s - at which point no doubt someone will produce an example :-)

 

There seems to be two threads on essentially the same issue - can we decide simply on one to puruse and dump the other perhaps???

[The Johnster]

Cwmdimbath signal box is open for 2 shifts from 6am to 10pm, based on Abergwynfi in the 1960 WTT.  The branch works 'one engine is steam' in terms of the first train up in the morning, the miner's, which arrives at 05.50 and is at the station in the platform road when the box opens, and reverts to 'one engine in steam' after 10 pm for the last auto up form Bridgend which arrives a 23.45, again based on Abergwynfi, and skulks away ece as soon as the drunks have detrained.

 

If the working is on the staff and ticket system, i see no problems except that I am going to have to keep track of which end of the section the staff is at any given time, as tickets can only be issued from that end.  A card system would probably do the job, the card representing the staff and being transferred from container to container as appropriate.  It will not do for Cwmdimbath to issue a ticket when the staff is at Cwmdimbath Junction...

[The Stationmaster]

I think you're trying to do something which in practice would have been unusual 'back in the day' because while providing a King Lever to switch the 'box out with signals 'off' was technically possible I somehow doubt the GWR or BR(W) would have spent that sort of money at a small signalbox up in the Valleys.  So when the Signalman goes home at night and the 'box is closed all signals will be at danger and they'll stay like that until the 'box is opened in the morning.  and if it is a signalbox (as opposed to a ground frame) then it will almost inevitably be Electric Token (ETT) block working so someone will have to be on duty with the 'box switched in to accept the first train of the morningem 

 

So simple answer - the Morning Turn man is going to have to get up a bit earlier.  That might or might not be possible within his booked working week (don't forget youngsters - those of us under their 80s - that the 40 hour week didn't come in until the 1960s on BR and it might still be a 48 or 44 hour week in the period you're modelling so longer turns might be possible).  But equally for a small 'box like that the Signalmen might possibly not have extended turns and the gap between them in the middle of the day would be covered by a Porter-Signalman - a very common arrangement at smaller 'boxes on lesser routes back in the day.

 

Now let's get something else straight - we are not talking about 'Single Line Working' - that is something which happens on a double or multiple line section of railway when trains are worked over a single line of rails.  We are talking about signalling of single lines - i.e. there is only one running line to start with (therefore it is impossible to put in Single Line Working because the line is already single ).  There are various methods of train signalling suitable for singe lines in your modelled period but with a line like this by far the most likely is Electric Token (ETT= Electric Train Token) Regulations as they allow the sort of flexibility you are looking for.  Train Staff & Ticket simply would not suit what you want to do - especially with intermediate shut-in at the colliery.  But ETT would allow that with an Auxiliary instrument at the colliery adjacent to the ground frame.  So once the colliery trip is shut in the crew put the token in the auxilliary instrument and a token can be withdrawn at either end of the branch for another train - simples.  However not at all unlikely in the 1950s that the colliery siding might still have a signalbox to control it anyway - still a very common situation in the Valleys well in the 1950s

 

Edit to correct typos.

Edited June 16, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[The Stationmaster]

I will ask for the threads to be combined although some of the things I have said in the other thread (before I got to this one) are, not surprisingly, repetitious of points made by John and Chris

[Ray H]

. . . snip

 

3. All this talk about 'remote operators' on token machines on Welsh NG lines etc IMHO is a red herring, as such things are a 'modern invention' unlikely to have been seen on BR in the 1950s - at which point no doubt someone will produce an example :-)

 

snip . . 

 

I have no wish to confuse this issue but I'm 99% certain that I had a book on general railway signalling (& telephones) - and may still have it buried somewhere - that had a wiring diagram of a Token machine system incorporating a remote operator device.

 

I was at the time investigating this kind of installation on an English heritage line. This was in the late 1960's and the book was not a recent publication then suggesting it pre-dated the welsh NG revival.

 

I know we ended up with such a system on that railway but can't definitely state that the circuit was derived from something in that book although I believe it was.

 

I have no knowledge of a BR installation of this nature but I recall the book was viewed a bible so the information may have related to an railway system abroad.

[Grovenor]

The key token machines with a 'remote operator device' were known as "No Signalman" instruments. They were a stanfard Tyers product and could be used at one or both ends of the sections so that the trrain crew could get the tokens out themselves. I installed half a dozen sets on the Zambian Copperbelt branchlines worked over radio as the original Scottish radio token block. However I don't know if the "No Signalman" versions were ever used in BR or its predecessors.

Regards

[RailWest]

'No Signalman' EKT instruments (NSKT) were - and still are - used in BR in many places.

 

However IMHO they are not the same as EKT with 'remote operators'. NSKT are designed specifically to be used in places where there is no signalman (hence the name!) at one end of the line at least (sometimes both ends) and the train crew have to extract their own token there. 

 

'Remote operators' (in the sense that I understand) are in effect an 'add on' to normal EKT instruments, so that - when the boxes at both ends ('A' and 'B') are switched-in - they can be worked as normal instruments. However a box at one end (say 'B') can be switched-out, whereupon the remote operator comes into effect, the signalman at 'A' can still get a release from 'B' by the remote operator, enabling him to withdraw a token at 'A'. 

 

There are also NSTR (No Signalman Token Remotely controlled) instruments, where the removal of a token by train-crew from either 'A' or 'B' is controlled remotely by a signalman who is elsewhere. Eg Eggesford - Barnstaple is NSTR controlled by the signalman at Crediton. 

[Grovenor]

Any instrument can be used by crew to obtain a token if there is someone at the other end to press the plunger to give the release, the remote operator acts to return the recieved pulse back to the other end to give the release without need of anyone being at the other end, and so long as there are remote operators both ends then the section can work as "No signalman".

control by a remote operator is not really "No signalman" as the signalman is required, the instrument needs a different design of remote operator. on the Derby resignalling we installed a set for the Wirksworth Branch operated from Derby Power Box.

Regards

[phil-b259]

 

 

Switching out / Box closing

 

The only condition under which a signal box at a terminus can normally close is when there are no trains. I am not aware that it is permitted to effectively change the mode of signalling to One Engine In Steam (nowadays called One Train Working) at certain times of the day (though I suppose it might have been in the past).

 

It is perfectly possible to do exactly this - many Heritage railways (including the Bluebell at Kingscote) have this ability and I'm sure it existed in the past too.

 

In simple terms (and using the Bluebell as an example) the signalman at Horsted Keynes can obtain a token by themselves for the section to Kingscote even when Kingscote box is closed. With Kingscote switched out all signals will be set to proceed in both directions at once and the main platform at the station forms part of the single line covered by the Horsted - Kingscote token. Once in possession of that token the driver may go up to Kingscote and back under 'one engine in steam principles'.

 

However this is not much use if the loco needs to run round at Kingscote or a second train needs to immediately follow the first. Therefore the option exists for the driver of a train arriving at Kingscote to give the token to a waiting signalman (who has not at that stage opened up Kingscote box). Once the Kingscote signalman has the token they then can open up the box, tell Horsted that the train is complete and completely within Kingscote station limits, thus removing the platform line and the immediate southern approaches to the station from the portion of line covered by token working.

 

Normal token working between two signal boxes - or simply running round can commence.

 

When it comes to closing out Kingscote, then provided the waiting train is standing in the prescribed platform, then it is perfectly acceptable to do so with a train present. Once the closing out procedure has been completed, the signalman going off duty passes the token to the driver, informing them that Kingscote box is switched out, that the platform line (plus the stations southern approch) are now all part of the single line (and thus subject to the rules relating to token working). The train driver can the proceed to Horsted but must NOT give up the token to the signalman at Horsted unless ALL vehicles are removed from the entire single line (i.e. leaving something behind at Kingscote it not permissible - unless it is placed in the sidings while the box is open and thus cannot be a factor when the single line is extended to cover the nominated station platform).

Edited June 18, 2017 by phil-b259

[The Johnster]

The whole point of Token Block signalling is that only one token can be out of the machines at one time. Tickets are only issued in event of the system failing. Staff and Ticket is a whole different way of doing things and doesn't involve tokens.

 

Here's how it works, lets call your Station Box C (its initial) and assume the section is from Box B.

 

To get your three trains at C:

 

Train 1 arrives with token from B, surrenders token to Signalman who inserts it into his instrument.

 

Signalman at Box B can now obtain a token to send the second train.

 

The process is repeated when Train 2 arrives at C to allow the Signalman at B to issue a token for Train 3.

 

Switching out / Box closing

 

The only condition under which a signal box at a terminus can normally close is when there are no trains. I am not aware that it is permitted to effectively change the mode of signalling to One Engine In Steam (nowadays called One Train Working) at certain times of the day (though I suppose it might have been in the past). Your own post points out the anomalies that can arise when changing back and anomalies create the risk of error and accident.  Switching out of boxes happens at through stations where trains continue to run during the night but reduced traffic density requires fewer sections.  All signals must be returned to danger before the Box can switch back in.

 

Your layout is a branch terminus, so the box at C can just close (with all signals at danger) once the two signalmen have verified that all tokens are back in the instruments, no switching out, just an exchange of 7-5-5.

 

Also, it will confuse the hell out of everybody if you use the term "Single Line Working" when you mean "Working of a Single Line". The former refers to moving traffic in both directions over one line of a double track railway. 

 

Hope this helps

 

John   

 

I stand corrected on the subject of 'single line working' as opposed to 'working of a single line'. thank you for pointing out my error.

[The Johnster]

I think you're trying to do something which in practice would have been unusual 'back in the day' because while providing a King Lever to switch the 'box out with signals 'off' was technically possible I somehow doubt the GWR or BR(W) would have spent that sort of money at a small signalbox up in the Valleys.  So when the Signalman goes home at night and the 'box is closed all signals will be at danger and they'll stay like that until the 'box is opened in the morning.  and if it is a signalbox (as opposed to a ground frame) then it will almost inevitably be Electric Token (ETT) block working so someone will have to be on duty with the 'box switched in to accept the first train of the morningem 

 

So simple answer - the Morning Turn man is going to have to get up a bit earlier.  That might or might not be possible within his booked working week (don't forget youngsters - those of us under their 80s - that the 40 hour week didn't come in until the 1960s on BR and it might still be a 48 or 44 hour week in the period you're modelling so longer turns might be possible).  But equally for a small 'box like that the Signalmen might possibly not have extended turns and the gap between them in the middle of the day would be covered by a Porter-Signalman - a very common arrangement at smaller 'boxes on lesser routes back in the day.

 

Now let's get something else straight - we are not talking about 'Single Line Working' - that is something which happens on a double or multiple line section of railway when trains are worked over a single line of rails.  We are talking about signalling of single lines - i.e. there is only one running line to start with (therefore it is impossible to put in Single Line Working because the line is already single ).  There are various methods of train signalling suitable for singe lines in your modelled period but with a line like this by far the most likely is Electric Token (ETT= Electric Train Token) Regulations as they allow the sort of flexibility you are looking for.  Train Staff & Ticket simply would not suit what you want to do - especially with intermediate shut-in at the colliery.  But ETT would allow that with an Auxiliary instrument at the colliery adjacent to the ground frame.  So once the colliery trip is shut in the crew put the token in the auxilliary instrument and a token can be withdrawn at either end of the branch for another train - simples.  However not at all unlikely in the 1950s that the colliery siding might still have a signalbox to control it anyway - still a very common situation in the Valleys well in the 1950s

 

Edit to correct typos.

My thanks for this, Mike.  I have already promised Dunsignalling not to use the term 'single line working' incorrectly again; I should know better!.  I have not worked out the Signalmen's hours or relief in any detail, but you are probably right in that Cwmdimbath might well have used the services of a Porter-Signalman, a grade I had forgotten about, at some times during the day's working.  The colliery only works a morning shift on Saturdays. Remploy and Tremains ROF do not work at all on the weekend, and the branch is closed on Sundays.  It is hitherto worked by Electric Train Token.

 

The provision of an imaginary box at the imaginary colliery sidings makes life a lot easier, and as it is imaginary can be easily provided!  I think this means that I have to provide non-imaginary fixed distants on the starters, though, as it is imagined to only a couple of hundred yards down the valley...

Edited June 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[Eggesford box]

Seaford box on the Southern region was at the end of a single line and could switch out only being open during the peaks. The two signalmen spent the rest of their shifts carriage cleaning and never normally saw one another. I visited in the eighties. I do not know when the system came in or remember what system of working was in use on the single line. I do not know what went on up in the valleys mid century but would have thought it unusual if not impossible. Even in the eighties there was a box open all night in the valleys with only one train dealt with and that only coming as far as an intermediate siding. Far enough back not to cause troubles but I think the token was released early in the shift, the signalman getting his head down and the TRB entries filled in later. One question lost in all the erudite discussions of what is and is not possible, why bother? You are not paying the signalmans wages (and wage rates on the railway where not exactly spectacular in those days and it would, presumably, be a relatively low graded box). Surely it would be better to model a typical situation than something unusual, rule 1 does, however, still apply! Strangely enough I spent last week on nights 'working' a box on nights at the end of an EKT section where there was only one train booked.

[The Johnster]

I don't have to pay them, Eggesford, but my approach to the model railway is holistic; in my head it is not a model but a real railway, only small.  It would bother me if I was operating it in a way that reflected an unlikely or impossible manning situation, and I run to a sequence timetable in which movements take place in real time at scale speed and with time allowed for the signalmen to collect the token from the driver and insert it in the instrument, releasing the frame, before any further movement takes place; time is condensed on a fast forward basis between trains when nothing is happening.  I like the imaginary human life of the station, perhaps because it was something I enjoyed greatly during my time on the real railway 40 odd years ago.  There were characters, sometimes you questioned their sanity, probably still are, but nowadays I suspect less time is spent in signalboxes or shunter's cabins getting to know them.

 

One of my imaginary signalmen (he may now morph into a porter-signalman) is based on a photo of Abergwynfi taken on what was clearly a hot and sticky day; the signalman is returning to the box with the token which he has just taken from the driver of a 57xx hauling 3 well weathered blood and custard auto coaches, probably mid 50s and late afternoon form the position of the sun.  He has taken his jacket, hat, and tie off, undone the top two buttons of his shirt, and sports a mullet; a rebel without a clue if ever I saw one and I can almost feel the station supervisor's disapproval from 60+ years and 20 miles away.  On Cwmdimbath he is going to have a motor bike, BSA Bantam if I can find one, as it is part of my characterisation of him to be a bit of a wannabe who hasn't passed his test and anyway cannot afford a Triumph or Vincent, to pose alongside to impress girls, chewing gum and trying to convince them his name's Dean or Eddie when it's really Nigel or something!  He keeps the 'L'plates in the box out of sight...

Edited June 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[Eggesford box]

Perhaps, 'why bother' was not the best phrase to use. I merely meant why tie yourself in knots trying to figure out a way to switch the box out when a more typical scenario would be to have a porter signalman work a fill in turn as suggested by the Stationmaster. Alternatively have it three turns even if the night man has little to do in the middle of his shift. A further alternative is to have the box worked on longer shifts. The first box I worked was worked on two ten hour turns as it was opened 0300 until 2300. And yes, there was a train at 0300, invariably waiting on the branch at the junction signal boxes section signal waiting for you to open!

 

Certainly nothing wrong with your approach. I am sure there are a fair few railwayman wince when they see a model loco drop onto its train and then promptly move away allowing no time for it to be coupled to its stock. I like your description of your imaginary porter/signalman. One of the things that put me off modelling the railway as I first knew it was that whilst I might be able to make a reasonable stab at recreating its physical appearance I would never be able to bring back the characters I knew.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Eggesford box

[The Johnster]

Perhaps, 'why bother' was not the best phrase to use. I merely meant why tie yourself in knots trying to figure out a way to switch the box out when a more typical scenario would be to have a porter signalman work a fill in turn as suggested by the Stationmaster. Alternatively have it three turns even if the night man has little to do in the middle of his shift. A further alternative is to have the box worked on longer shifts. The first box I worked was worked on two ten hour turns as it was opened 0300 until 2300. And yes, there was a train at 0300, invariably waiting on the branch at the junction signal boxes section signal waiting for you to open!

 

Certainly nothing wrong with your approach. I am sure there are a fair few railwayman wince when they see a model loco drop onto its train and then promptly move away allowing no time for it to be coupled to its stock. I like your description of your imaginary porter/signalman. One of the things that put me off modelling the railway as I first knew it was that whilst I might be able to make a reasonable stab at recreating its physical appearance I would never be able to bring back the characters I knew.

 

The point, I think, about 'Dean' is that, like all good railway models, he is based on reality, a mixture of the signalman in the Abergwynfi photo, whose attitude I may have completely misinterpreted and who wasn't like that at all, and a guard I knew at Canton in the '70s, who was a bit, by which I mean a lot.