Station identification if possible please

[John_Hughes]

My brother-in-law has sent us a rather poor print of a photo of various ancestors, taken we know around the beginning of the First World War. He believes that it shows them in a garden adjacent to Oldbury and Bromford Lane station, but this is clearly wrong for various reasons.

 

The scan here doesn't show the station fencing as clearly as the original print, but it is certainly the diagonal style used by the Midland rather than the LNWR's vertical railings. From what we know of the family history the picture must have been taken somewhere in the Black Country, and therefore almost certainly on the Wednesfield line.

 

 

Can anyone be more precise than this? The most obvious distinguising feature is what appears to be a station access stair tower with signalbox behind, all slightly obscured by the lady's head on the left.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

[bike2steam]

I can't think of any stations on the Wednesfield line that would've needed an 'access stair tower'. But I am relying on memory of over 50 years, as my maternal family come/ came from the northern half of the 'Black Country'.   

[TheSignalEngineer]

I know of only two Midland stations in the Wolverhampton area on embankments.

The first was Short Heath near Willenhall which closed on 1931, but I don't think there were any houses around it. 

The second was Heath Town, which closed c1910. This was close to the junction with the line from Portobello Junction and there were some houses near in Old Heath Road. There was a pub there and the Wyrley and Essington canal ran between the houses and the station. I don't think there was a stair tower and certainly not a signal box but there was a building behind the Wolverhampton-bound platform. On the opposite side of the line from the houses there was a large ironworks. The topography doesn't seem right on the bank for that station.

 

Is there a canal behind the fence and an old bridge abutment? If so that may give a clue.

[bike2steam]

The second was Heath Town, which closed c1910.

Is there a canal behind the fence and an old bridge abutment? If so that may give a clue.

That's a good call, I forgot that one as it closed much earlier than the rest, could that old bridge abutment be an old bridge that went over the GJ main-line avoiding Wolverhampton High Level??

[John_Hughes]

I know of only two Midland stations in the Wolverhampton area on embankments.

The first was Short Heath near Willenhall which closed on 1931, but I don't think there were any houses around it. 

The second was Heath Town, which closed c1910. This was close to the junction with the line from Portobello Junction and there were some houses near in Old Heath Road. There was a pub there and the Wyrley and Essington canal ran between the houses and the station. I don't think there was a stair tower and certainly not a signal box but there was a building behind the Wolverhampton-bound platform. On the opposite side of the line from the houses there was a large ironworks. The topography doesn't seem right on the bank for that station.

 

Is there a canal behind the fence and an old bridge abutment? If so that may give a clue.

 

There's certainly what looks like an old bridge abutment, so yes, that could be a canal there. So we're looking at Heath Town as a possibility.

 

Presumably they were at some other relative's house; they would never have gone near a pub, which were widely known as dens of the uttermost depravity. Some, to be fair, were just that!

 

Thanks to all who have replied so far - I'm most grateful!

[bike2steam]

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=old+maps+of+heath+town+wolverhampton&fr=slv8-hpd10&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.francisfrith.com%2Fordnance-survey%2Fheath-town-1885-1886_hosm48000_large.jpg#id=1&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fuptheossroad.files.wordpress.com%2F2015%2F04%2Fheath-town-1974.png&action=click

 

Could the pic been taken, referring to above map, in the back garden of one of the last houses before the GJ line (middle of r/h side to left-side of top) goes under the Midland branch ?? 

edit, Yeah I got time to kill, so spending more time on the computer as I've torn a tendon on my right knee, and I gotta keep the weight off it !

Edited June 28, 2017 by bike2steam

[melmerby]

Heath Town, to me, just does not look right.

Are you sure it's not "Oldbury" Station on the short branch from Langley Green?

It's on an embankment and the end of the station's platforms are by a canal with pedestrian access over an adjacent path.

 

Just a thought.

 

BTW what ever is sticking out of the top of the tower does not look like a signal box when the picture is cleaned up a bit.

Can you do a higher resolution scan of the picture?

Cheers

 

Keith

[John_Hughes]

Heath Town, to me, just does not look right.

Are you sure it's not "Oldbury" Station on the short branch from Langley Green?

It's on an embankment and the end of the station's platforms are by a canal with pedestrian access over an adjacent path.

 

Just a thought.

 

BTW what ever is sticking out of the top of the tower does not look like a signal box when the picture is cleaned up a bit.

Can you do a higher resolution scan of the picture?

Cheers

 

Keith

 

Thanks for that.

 

Yes, I remember the old Oldbury Station in BR days when it was goods only. It was as you say on an embankment, but it was certainly GWR and not Midland, so the fencing in the photo would be wrong; and the fencing (which is much clearer in the original photo) certainly identifies it as either Midland pure and simple or possibly Midland Joint with something else. Given that the trio in the picture barely left the Black Country in their entire lives, except for summer holidays when they occasionally made it as far as Aberystwyth, then I think that Heath Town looks the most promising estimate so far. And they could have made it from home in Oldbury on two connecting tram routes - so a nice summer's day outing to visit a friend Riding on top of the car, and all captured for ever on the friend's new Box Brownie!

 

I agree that the building doesn't really look much like a signalbox, so I'll try for a higher resolution scan and see where it get us.

[John_Hughes]

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=old+maps+of+heath+town+wolverhampton&fr=slv8-hpd10&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.francisfrith.com%2Fordnance-survey%2Fheath-town-1885-1886_hosm48000_large.jpg#id=1&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fuptheossroad.files.wordpress.com%2F2015%2F04%2Fheath-town-1974.png&action=click

 

Could the pic been taken, referring to above map, in the back garden of one of the last houses before the GJ line (middle of r/h side to left-side of top) goes under the Midland branch ?? 

edit, Yeah I got time to kill, so spending more time on the computer as I've torn a tendon on my right knee, and I gotta keep the weight off it !

 

I'd come to much the same conclusion! The street seems to have suffered some bomb damage in the last war, but most of the original terrace houses are still there and the exact one could probably be identified by a field visit. Indeed, for about £80,000 one could probably buy it!

 

I can see that my brother-in-law is going to be trawling through the 1911 census information to find out just who the trio were visiting that day! This could get seriously addictive!

[brigo]

To me the platforms at Heath Town do not appear to have any houses close enough as in the picture.

 

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=52.5931&lon=-2.1029&layers=168&b=1

 

Brian

[TheSignalEngineer]

I agree that working out all of the angles from the map it may not be Heath Town. The fence looks definitely Midland so that restricts the possible locations if it is Black Country. 

Of course, they may have been visiting somewhere else entirely.

A better scan may well reveal more clues especially if that is a canal over the fence.

[brigo]

I'm a little bit puzzled by that "canal" it seems to be going uphill. If you enlarge the photo and look carefully the water seems to go over the ladies dress. I wonder if the original photo was taken through glass and we are seeing a reflection or if the photo is in a glass frame and a camera used rather than a scanner.

 

Brian

[John_Hughes]

Here's a better-quality scan, showing a little more of the original picture.

 

After looking carefully at it I'm pretty sure that the apparent 'uphill' aspect of the canal - if that's what it is - is just an effect of the perspective; the old bridge abutment has the same 'uphill' appearance.

 

It's clearly a ladies' day out - note the smart clothes and jewellery - and obviously taken in spring or summer. Given that literally all their friends and relatives lived within at most a ten-mile or so radius of Oldbury, and that tripping further afield would only have happened when the menfolk were also around - Sunday School trips and the like - then Old Heath Road is still my favourite.

 

But I could so easily be wrong!

 

[bike2steam]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the old houses have gone, with a little help from Mr Hitler's Luftwaffe, and what looks like a bridge abutment is a reinforced, bricked up, and capped coal mine shaft, pity my late step-father isn't still alive as he was a former coal-miner who worked at Holly Bank, and then transferred, as part of under-ground maintenance at a few other Wednesfield area mines, before moving on to being a lock-smith based at Chubbs, he could certainly say what's in that area, he lived there all his life.

Edited June 29, 2017 by bike2steam

[John_Hughes]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think all the old houses have gone, with a little help from Mr Hitler's Luftwaffe, and what looks like a bridge abutment is a reinforced, bricked up, and capped coal mine shaft, pity my late step-father isn't still alive as he was a former coal-miner who worked at Holly Bank, and then transferred, as part of under-ground maintenance at a few other Wednesfield area mines, before moving on to being a lock-smith based at Chubbs, he could certainly say what's in that area, he lived there all his life.

 

Now that is a very interesting suggestion!

 

Thanks!

[melmerby]

You have a problem with Old Heath Road and those houses because it doesn't appear on an OS map until 1938!

 

1919: http://maps.nls.uk/view/102339736

1938: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101597309

 

Those houses are clearly older than that so IMHO you need another think!

 

Cheers

 

Keith

 

EDIT ignore that.

It's been re-aligned/straightened and I think the windy track on earler maps is the same road!

 

BTW I now see vertical railings in the middle of the bridge

 

Hope you don't mind  i cleaned up the picture a little:

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by melmerby

[bike2steam]

You have a problem with Old Heath Road and those houses because it doesn't appear on an OS map until 1938!

 

1919: http://maps.nls.uk/view/102339736

1938: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101597309

 

Those houses are clearly older than that so IMHO you need another think!

 

Cheers

 

Keith

After having looked on Old Maps, I'd concede to that, time for a rethink ?? Time to look for a needle in a haystack.

Edited July 1, 2017 by bike2steam

[auld_boot]

You might want to start your rethink by flipping the photo, there's appears to be some text on the building on the left that looks to me like it's reversed.

[auld_boot]

Like this:

 

 

 

 

edit to add the picture!

Edited July 1, 2017 by auld_boot

[£1.38]

Just seen this and TBH the structure behind the tallest lady's head looks remarkably like a LNWR standard wooden station building with a WC ventilator on the roof.

[melmerby]

After having looked on Old Maps, I'd concede to that, time for a rethink ?? Time to look for a needle in a haystack.

Check out my amended post as I was a bit hasty with my conclusions!

 

Like this:

 

station_flip.jpg

 

Edit to add the picture!

I had wondered about that but John said in his OP that it was a photo which he had scanned so I assumed it was the correct way round.

 

Keith

 

BTW if it is in the Black Country I should have it on a map as I have a complete set of (reproduction!) 25" maps from the 1890-1910 period (the ones on the NLS site)

Edited July 1, 2017 by melmerby

[IWCR]

Looking  at the  picture:

The  reversed  picture  looks  correct,  there  is  lettering  on  the  corner  of  the  building  behind,  possibly  a  pub  or  shop?.

Can  it  be  read  on  the  original?.

The  houses  behind  appear  to  be  the  fronts  of  the  terrace,  hence  the  area  behind  the  women  is  likely  a  road  or  yard.

 A road  probably  goes  off  picture  to  the  right  between  the  railings  and  the  building  with  the  lettering.

The  women  appear  to  be  in  a  garden  hence  a  house  off  picture  to  the  left  or  right.

Sunlit  from  behind  the  camera  and  to  the right  hence  picture  likely  taken  pointing  in  a  north  to  eastish  direction.

The  "bridge abutment"  is  a  small   brick  pillar  with  adjoining  vertical  iron  railing  fence,   Not  to  sure  about  a  canal  beyond  this,   The  building  in  the  left  background  is  odd,   certainly  industrial  but  it  appears  to  slope  uphill to  the  left,  if  not  the  gable  end  is at an  extreme  angle  to  it.

 

Pete

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looking at the cleaned up image the platform fencing looks more LNWR than Midland.

[£1.38]

Looking at the cleaned up image the platform fencing looks more LNWR than Midland.

As I said a few posts ago, that looks very much like a LNWR timber station building too - with a WC vent in the roof. I am pretty certain about that now I have looked at one or two examples.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Does your brother-in-law have any addresses where they may have lived in the 1901 or 1911 census?