HST power car prefixes

[rodent279]

Evening all.

 

Piffling trivia question ahead.

 

At what point did HST power cars start losing their W/E/Sc prefixes?

Which ones were built with prefixes?

 

Cheers N

[Ken.W]

Evening all.

 

Piffling trivia question ahead.

 

At what point did HST power cars start losing their W/E/Sc prefixes?

Which ones were built with prefixes?

 

Cheers N

Sectorisation, when they became 'property' of Intercity rather than the regions

[mjkerr]

Sectorisation, when they became 'property' of Intercity rather than the regions

Which came first?

Sectorisation or reclassification from multiple units to locomotives and coaches?

[Ken.W]

Which came first?

Sectorisation or reclassification from multiple units to locomotives and coaches?

The set numbers were dropped quite early, as it soon proved impossible to keep the power cars and sets together due to differing maintenance requirements

[kevinlms]

The set numbers were dropped quite early, as it soon proved impossible to keep the power cars and sets together due to differing maintenance requirements

Obvious really. The LNWR worked that out generations ago. They discovered that tenders could go through workshops much quicker than locomotives, so many classes had less tenders than locos. It also meant that any tender that suited, could go with any loco. Nothing like re-inventing the wheel!

[Commoner]

Judging from my photo collection the WR power cars started to lose their W prefixes during 1981/82 as they went through Works.  The process may have started a bit earlier.  253 028 was released from Works without prefixes and set numbers in November 1980, but they were swiftly applied at Old Oak Common.  Around the same time, 253 018/19/29 were recorded without prefixes on PCs or trailers.  Throughout 1981 more sets seemed to return from overhaul without prefixes.  Ironically the power cars delivered new to the WR in 1981 carried W prefixes.

 

Attached are two internal BR letters which may give some clues as to why prefixes were gradually dropped, prior to Sectorisation.  While the ER got of sets numbers fairly early on the WR held  on to the concept of maintaining trailers and power cars together well in to 1983.  This of course did not mean that sets ran as booked and power cars didn't get swapped about.  Up to the mid 80s and even through the Executive Livery years, WR trailers still carried prefixes.  It would seem that prefixes were dropped completely when Swallow livery was introduced.

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Commoner

[mjkerr]

Judging from my photo collection the WR power cars started to lose their W prefixes during 1981/82 as they went through Works.  The process may have started a bit earlier.  253 028 was released from Works without prefixes and set numbers in November 1980, but they were swiftly applied at Old Oak Common.  Around the same time, 253 018/19/29 were recorded without prefixes on PCs or trailers.  Throughout 1981 more sets seemed to return from overhaul without prefixes.  Ironically the power cars delivered new to the WR in 1981 carried W prefixes.

 

Attached are two internal BR letters which may give some clues as to why prefixes were gradually dropped, prior to Sectorisation.  While the ER got of sets numbers fairly early on the WR held  on to the concept of maintaining trailers and power cars together well in to 1983.  This of course did not mean that sets ran as booked and power cars didn't get swapped about.  Up to the mid 80s and even through the Executive Livery years, WR trailers still carried prefixes.  It would seem that prefixes were dropped completely when Swallow livery was introduced.

Great photos, but from what I can work out they are referring to the set numbers on the noses, not the regional prefixes

Regional prefixes were still present a few years later

[rodent279]

I think regional prefixes as a whole, on coaching stock, disappeared around the time regions were finally abolished & full sectorisation happened, around 1988-90.

 

My question is, when did HST power cars cease being numbered W/E/Sc43xxx, and start being just 43xxx, and which were the first ones built without regional prefixes?

 

cheers N

Edited July 12, 2017 by rodent279

[Commoner]

Great photos, but from what I can work out they are referring to the set numbers on the noses, not the regional prefixes

Regional prefixes were still present a few years later

Point 1 in the letter refers to the charge to the Regions of Derby Works placing prefixes on overhauled vehicles, and from the ER's point of view questioning the rationale for applying prefixes to HST stock.  The letter from the ER was passed to the HST Working Group for discussion and as far as prefixing trailers the proposal to remove them was not taken up.  The ER stopped applying set numbers to their power cars early on, while the WR persisted for some considerable time, reflecting the differing ways the ER and WR approached HST formations and maintenance.

[Commoner]

I think regional prefixes as a whole, on coaching stock, disappeared around the regions were finally abolished & full sectorisation happened, around 1988-90.

 

My question is when did HST power cars cease bening numbered W/E/Sc43xxx, and start being just 43xxx, and which were the first ones built without regional prefixes?

 

cheers N

I recorded W43149 and 43150, new, less than 3 weeks in passenger service on 20.06.81 with and without a prefix.  I made a specific note about 43150 not having a "W".  Meanwhile 43152 which was delivered just a few days after 43150 was noted with a prefix.  I have looked at a few photographs of NE/SW power cars in my collection, which were delivered from June 1981 onwards - none have prefixes.  So possibly the application of prefixes to new power car builds occurred with the NE/SW sets, beginning 43163/164.  Photograph here shows 43164 on Old Oak Common HST shed in June 1981 without a prefix https://www.flickr.com/photos/tramfan/14278306088/in/album-72157644839835169/

Edited July 11, 2017 by Commoner