Modelling Midland 48ft Suburban Coaches in BR Days

[Echo]

Ratio do 4mm scale kits of the 8ft 6in wide 48ft MR suburban coaches with 10ft wheelbase bogies. According to Jenkinson's Historic Carriage Drawings book, that should be perfect for Birmingham area suburban trains. Problem is I need to model them in mid-1950s BR condition, at the end of their life. I have been hunting for contemporary photos, but to no avail.

 

Can anyone advise me if/where any useful photos exist, please? Otherwise, suggestions of changes I need to make to the kits to get the detail right. For example, did they retain gas lighting to the bitter end? Did some of the panelling disappear, as with other pre-grouping coaches?

 

I am well outside my normal areas of interest and knowledge with this one, so any useful advice would be gratefully received.

 

[The Johnster]

I don't know what books have been published about the Birmingham ares's ex LMS railways, but there must be a few; even coaches peeking in to the background at New Street in BR days will be informative.  Check your local nearest big library, especially if you live in the Birmingham area and you've got time to go in and browse; surprising what you can turn up.  Googling New Street images on line might turn something up as well if you haven't tried it.

 

Quite possible that gas equipment, piping etc, was still carried on the coaches even if they'd been converted to electric lighting, and very possible that some had panelling sheeted over; MR, LMS, HMRS and the like will be your friends here.  Rather than let it hold up a project, I'd go ahead and build the kits, paint them in BR crimson or late LMS livery, and 'retrofit' any corrections later.  There's nothing like building a model wrong for finding out how you should have done it right...

[Echo]

Looking at other captions in Jenkinson's book there are references to gas lighting being replaced on other Midland carriages of the same era. I could perhaps assume that as this is not mentioned in respect of the 48ft suburban coaches, they may have remained gas lit to the end.

 

Good news is that the kits arrived this morning and look very nice! I am just waiting for the wheels to arrive now. I got one of each type - an all first (which also doubled as a composite), a full third, a 4 compartment brake third and a 6 compartment brake third. Measuring the overall length of the rake, they just fit nicely in the run round loop at the terminal platform of my station. The lack of flush glazing may be a minor issue for me - but otherwise, the kits should make up into a very nice set of coaches.

 

My rake will have to have lasted until 1957, to fit in with the story of the layout. I plan to do them in early BR crimson unlined livery, unless facts emerge to contradict that idea. I reckon that after almost 10 years in BR ownership, even these coaches would surely have received a repaint - but I am happy to be convinced otherwise, just as long as it is before I do the painting!

[asmay2002]

Most of the Birmingham suburban carriages were withdrawn well before 1957 although some were transferred away to the LT&S and almost made it to your date.  The dates are given in appendix 30 of Lacy & Dow Midland Railway carriages Volume 2.

 

Of the ones not listed as going to the LT&S.

 

Of the D481 all firsts the last to go were 16928 as a composite in 1953 and 10474 as a second in 1955. 

The last three D551 composites were 13440 as a 3rd in 1953 and 17321 also in 1953 and 17326 in 1956.

D487 3rd 14118 made it into 1957 but the next last not on the LT&S only got to 1953 (14086).

The D551 Brake 3rd 23124 got to 1954 and  23102, 23105 and 23126 go to 1953.

The D552 Brake 3rd 22867 and 22868 were the last of their kind in 1953.

 

I guess nearly all of them woud have gone to the breakers in LMS crimson.

[Echo]

That's brilliant! Many thanks for the info. It had never occurred to me that so much of the stock might have gravitated elsewhere. No wonder photos of them around New Street are seemingly impossible to find.

 

I guess I will have to claim (rather dubiously) that the MR/LMS/LMR kept one or more sets specifically for the 'Thistle Foxham' branch. I am already planning to include Birmingham trams 3 years after they finished running, so why not a few coaches too?     

[JZ]

I did a couple for early BR services on my S&D layout. Purists look away now.

Not done any more than leave the gas fittings off. I also heavily modified four to give a passing resemblance for a 'sometime I'll get round to it' Isle of Wight layout.

[Straits Settlements]

You might fnd some photos on this site:

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/index.htm

 

Best

 

John D

[Echo]

I have found a few photos on the RCTS site, largely thanks to the clue that some went to the Tilbury line. There are one or two early 1950s shots at New Street.

 

I tried the Warwickshire site earlier, but couldn't find anything useful, unfortunately. Thanks for the suggestion anyway, John.

[Echo]

The photos arrived this morning by email - what an excellent service!. The ones I found (on the RCTS site) are of slightly later stock with the shorter bogies, but show a lot of useful detail. Apart from one all-third that shows repairs around a lot of the door hinges, most appear to be in quite good condition and a few, at least, have been recently repainted. You can see the shine.

 

There is also some useful lettering, including a set number on the end of one of the brake vehicles at Birmingham New Street.

 

The stock is all electrically lit.

 

Overall, I have gained a lot of useful information!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I did a couple for early BR services on my S&D layout. Purists look away now...

 It would need someone very purist not to prefer a vehicle of credible appearance to represent the pre-group stock that should be present, rather than the alternative of nothing at all.

 

As a non-purist, it looks very well to me in suggesting the character of the  pre-group design passenger stock that operated as late as the early sixties in some areas.