MarkC Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, johnofwessex said: I was in the engine room of the 1965 Ben My Cree - 2x4750hp DR geared turbines when someone went over the side, the bow thruster was in seconds after the telegraphs rang, astern elements given some steam to warm them before we stopped to launch a boat, and yes we picked them up. Ditto in the ER when Waverley crash stopped to pick up some Muppets in a Dinghy, full ahead to dead stop in a couple of lengths. (1x2100 hp triple expansion driving paddle wheels) Balmoral on the other hand was a different kettle of fish altogether if you had an emergency stop because oil and coolant had to go over to the auxiliary pumps, compressor started and starting air valves opened. As far as the Titanic lifeboats go though the idea wasnt to evacuate the passengers into the boats but use them to ferry the passengers and crew to the next ship to come along. Sadly with every other ship stopped that didnt happen. Some great examples of different machinery & response times/actions there 👍 Titanic's lifeboats - funnily enough, even though I'm using a PC to access here, & not my phone - when I opened Farceberk (on my phone) last night, there was a link to an article on the Big T - apparently she was originally intended to have over 40 lifeboats, but this was dramatically reduced because "it made the decks look too cluttered..." . Mark Edited February 13, 2023 by MarkC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 13, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, MarkC said: Some great examples of different machinery & response times/actions there 👍 Indeed - never having sailed on steam other than for pleasure on the Waverley, much food for thought. The Manx steamers were all gone before we began travelling here in '86, and ultimately moved here. Cripes it's been nearly 21 years! The emergency astern incident I mentioned above wouldn't have happened had we been full away, I hadn't thought all these years later that the starting air would have been shut off in that case. So she would have just stopped.....and my next week wouldn't have been overhauling relief valves..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said: Indeed - never having sailed on steam other than for pleasure on the Waverley, much food for thought. The Manx steamers were all gone before we began travelling here in '86, and ultimately moved here. Cripes it's been nearly 21 years! The emergency astern incident I mentioned above wouldn't have happened had we been full away, I hadn't thought all these years later that the starting air would have been shut off in that case. So she would have just stopped.....and my next week wouldn't have been overhauling relief valves..... When on Bridge Control, and especially when UMS, you don't close the Starting Air off on a start/stop engine, as the Bridge wouldn't have full control of the propulsion plant, & therefore you shouldn't be operating UMS... As for your relief valves, that was serious bad luck for you. As I mentioned before, when the emergency astern event happened on my ship, we had none open, which was A Good Thing... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I've been in Balmorals Engine Room when the relief valves blew - a lot but nobody batted an eyelid, we were starting the engines at the start of the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 This talk of relief valves lifting - and I have experienced a few over the years - pales into insignificance when I recall an incident on a fully handomatic ship with an 8 cylinder MAN KZ90/160 main engine. One with plate valves in the scavenges - the bane of the poor 4th Engineer's life... This incident, though, had nothing to do with the scavenge valves, but a new joiner being introduced to the joys of manoeuvring the beast, which had a standard wheel type main control at the manoeuvring platform, which was at bottom plate level. The fuel pumps were at cylinder head level, with a large control rod going from the manoeuvring stand up to the fuel pump linkages. Anyway, on departure, the first movement was always a blow with the cylinder cocks open, then a start proper, per telegraph order, once the cylinder cocks had been shut. I was 3rd/Frostie for this trip, so had been tasked with shutting the cocks after the blow over, and the Second Engineer was with our newbie, at the controls. The telegraph rang, was answered, and the engine blown on air. All well and good. I shut the cocks, then, whilst remaining at cylinder head level, positioned myself above the manoeuvring stand where I could be seen, and gave the thumbs up to the manoeuvring team. This put me in line between cylinders 4 & 5. Our newbie moved the control wheel to the appropriate Start position, then, as the engine started turning, released the lock and moved the wheel further, to admit fuel to the cylinders. Unfortunately, he hadn't braced himself against the weight of the previously mentioned control rod, and the engine went to full fuel admission... There were a couple of HUGE detonations, and both #4 and #5 heads (at least) actually lifted slightly, with sheets of smoke & flame shooting across the top platform that I was standing on, and apparently all that could be seen of me was my boiler suit, seen faintly through a cloud of smoke... Funnily enough, both heads actually reseated & didn't leak - goodness knows why not... Mark 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 14, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 13/02/2023 at 10:42, MarkC said: When on Bridge Control, and especially when UMS, you don't close the Starting Air off on a start/stop engine, as the Bridge wouldn't have full control of the propulsion plant, & therefore you shouldn't be operating UMS... Oops....however....#cough# save compressor hours..... 8 hours ago, MarkC said: There were a couple of HUGE detonations, and both #4 and #5 heads (at least) actually lifted slightly, with sheets of smoke & flame shooting across the top platform In my brief B&W experience (8K98F) that was 'normal'. 'Apparently'. #cough again? Don't know much about the horrid things, but it certainly happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said: Oops....however....#cough# save compressor hours..... Fixing air leaks would be a better idea, eh? 😛 But then, what do I know? I'm just the Chief... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach james Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 On 12/02/2023 at 13:33, Schooner said: Disappointing when that happens, but it's always nice to identify a problem! 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 15, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2023 23 hours ago, MarkC said: Fixing air leaks would be a better idea, eh? 😛 But then, what do I know? I'm just the Chief... Indeed I would agree, but I sailed with the odd one who, shall we say, had a different perspective on normal operations of many things. As a Junior at the time I just did what I was told by those on high! It was my misfortune to sail twice on this vessel with the same Chief, who was.....unconventional..... in outlook. I could keep us going in tales for weeks of unnecessary disasters caused by this individual. The Second actually came to blows with him, after an incident where we ended up changing a liner at sea. Charming. One reason I don't go to Bibby's reunions is this person is a regular.....not a person I wish to meet again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said: Indeed I would agree, but I sailed with the odd one who, shall we say, had a different perspective on normal operations of many things. As a Junior at the time I just did what I was told by those on high! It was my misfortune to sail twice on this vessel with the same Chief, who was.....unconventional..... in outlook. I could keep us going in tales for weeks of unnecessary disasters caused by this individual. The Second actually came to blows with him, after an incident where we ended up changing a liner at sea. Charming. One reason I don't go to Bibby's reunions is this person is a regular.....not a person I wish to meet again. Mmm, we've all sailed with folk like that, I suspect, Neil. My own thoughts as I was climbing the greasy pole - with some of my seniors I would think "He's got the right ideas - if I turn out half as good as him, all will be well". With others, it was more a case of "If I turn out like this bloke, somebody please *"shoot me". *only metaphorically speaking, natch... Mark 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted February 15, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2023 (edited) Aye, that Second was a good hand, and I liked him a lot and learned much from him, but the two trips on that mobile heap were a trial for sure. The first one I didn't set foot on land for the 4 months to the day I was on her. I enjoyed the other ships I sailed on, but I'd willingly cut that one up myself. Edited February 15, 2023 by New Haven Neil 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 16, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2023 8 hours ago, MarkC said: Mmm, we've all sailed with folk like that, I suspect, Neil. My own thoughts as I was climbing the greasy pole - with some of my seniors I would think "He's got the right ideas - if I turn out half as good as him, all will be well". With others, it was more a case of "If I turn out like this bloke, somebody please *"shoot me". *only metaphorically speaking, natch... Mark True of many careers in many industries I suspect - certainly mine! After more than 48 years in the business, I hope I'm in the first category rather than the second. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 17, 2023 Yeah, but it's probably worse on a ship, where there is no respite from the 'stards. You are going to encounter them unavoidably on a regular basis depending on what watch you and the 'stard are on, and if he is in a position of authority over you, it can make your life utterly miserable. Quote Fletcher Christian as Bligh remonstrated with him as the longboat was being cast off, 'I am in hell, sir, in hell'! Still addressed him as 'sir', though. My father was a 4/O on an Ellerman Lines ship just before the war with a North Walian chap as 3/O who made his life a misery, and never forgot the experience. It was on this ship that the Chief Engineer, who everybody hated (it wasn't a happy ship, apparently) ate a dodgy pie and vomitted his false teeth overboard, which was the high point of both that voyage and dad's Ellerman career... He was took sick himself in New York and came home on the Berengaria, sharing a third class cabin with a gangster who was 'riding the tubs', a professional card sharp riding the liners back and forth who would involve himself in rigged card games to fleece anyone unfortunate enough to be taken in by him, on behalf of The Mob, who paid for the tickets. This Runyonesque character and dad got on famously for some odd reason, as sometimes happens between people with absolutely nothing whatsoever in common except a third class cabin, and he taught dad some of his dodgy poker stunts. When I asked to be taught them myself, dad refused, reckoning they were likely to get me killed... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) One has to wonder how many events (especially maritime events) have been triggered or made worse by such social or personality problems/disorders. (A good study of the Bligh/Christian problem is in 'The Bounty' by Caroline Alexander) There was the problem of the Chief Engineer of the old battleship Canopus in the south Pacific in 1914 maintaining that the ship couldn't make more than 12 knots, when in fact she could do nearly 17 **. This was RN/RNR rather than the MN, but it still seems strange that even in a naval hierarchy no-one challenged the authority of an increasingly deranged officer who hardly left his cabin. Whether of course the presence of Canopus would have made any difference to the outcome of the clash between Rear Admiral Cradock and Vice Admiral Von Spee is a debateable point. I think it would have hinged on whether Von Spee was as influenced by the myth of 'the battleship' as was Winston Churchill (then a rather over-active First Lord of the Admiralty). If the very efficient and competent German admiral didn't believe the myth, and realised that his armoured cruisers still outgunned and outranged Cradock's command (even with the addition of the elderly 12" guns of Canopus) then all the battleship would have done would have been to take her company down together with the crews of Good Hope and Monmouth. Perhaps the deranged Chief Engineer saved the lives of his crew members. (** Of course, these were all coal-fired ships so sustained speeds depended on the endurance of the stokers.) Edited February 17, 2023 by drmditch Note added 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) I can get on with most folk, but I did tell my employers on one occasion that I would not, under any circumstances, sail with a recently promoted Master. I'd sailed with this individual many times when he was Mate, and he was not only useless but potentially dangerous. Also lacking in any man-management skills. It cost me a bollocking from the Office, being told that it wasn't up to me, but they never did put me with the pillock. He managed to have a command of his very badly damaged in bad weather - they were lucky to make port - because "I'm the Master, and you lot WILL do as I say". He made a lot of bad choices, talking to a friend who was on board at the time. 3 people quit after they paid off following that trip, which speaks volumes... Mark Edited February 17, 2023 by MarkC Proofreading is less than ideal... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, MarkC said: I can get on with most folk, but I did tell my employers on one occasion that I would, under any circumstances, not sail with a recently promoted Master. I'd sailed with this individual many times when he was Mate, and he was not only useless but potentially dangerous. Also lacking in any man-management skills. It cost me a bollocking from the Office, being told that it wasn't up to me, but they never did put me with the pillock. He managed to have a command of his very badly damaged in bad weather - they were lucky to make port - because "I'm the Master, and you lot WILL do as I say". He made a lot of bad choices, talking to a friend who was on board at the time. 3 people quit after they paid off following that trip, which speaks volumes... Mark I think that you left a very important "not" out of that statement. At least you were successful in your request. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 49 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said: I think that you left a very important "not" out of that statement. At least you were successful in your request. Oops - thank you, shipmate 😎 - and yes, I was. Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) Hi Everyone, Just wondering if by any coincidence, there is here on RMWeb , anyone who sailed (as I did a 4 year old 'bubber'), either as a passenger or possible worked on this fine lady during the November - December 31st, sailing and April -May 27th outbound and return Tilbury to Sydney route, in 1964 and 1965 respectively? P and O Himalaya.... Regards Bob Edited February 17, 2023 by BobM 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 No, but she is a fine looking ship! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, J. S. Bach said: No, but she is a fine looking ship! Hello It is strange how ships get into your heart. When I heard in 1974 she was being sent to the scrapyard, I cried for weeks to think she's met such an ignominious end....even now a lump comes to the throat every time I think of 'her'.! Regards Bob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium J. S. Bach Posted February 17, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 17, 2023 I have a similar feeling about the USS Kitty Hawk (CVA-63) as I served on her on a WestPac cruise. Not as ship's company but deployed aboard with Reconnaissance Attack Squadron 6 (RVAH-6) as part of the line crew. Fond memories! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Good news for a couple of UK shipyards - Harland & Wolff in Belfast and Appledore in Devon Quote H&W will be responsible for the fabrication of various blocks including some of the ‘mega blocks’ (blocks incorporating several standard-sized blocks) as well as the procurement of a number of items of equipment to be installed on each vessel in Belfast. Given Appledore’s experience in the fabrication of the bow sections for the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers, all three bow sections for this Programme will be fabricated in Appledore prior to being transported to Belfast. All three vessels will have all the blocks assembled, consolidated, fully integrated and commissioned before proceeding to sea trials from the Belfast facility, the first ships to be built in Belfast after over twenty years. https://www.navylookout.com/harland-wolff-to-get-around-50-share-of-the-fleet-solid-support-ship-contract-value/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I was explaining to middle son (14) how to 'cold start' a steamship, he was particularly interested in the surviving US Battleships which in theory at least could be recalled to service. But he raised an interesting point, when steal ships, large oil burners in particular were dry docked did they ever keep any boilers in steam for auxiliary services as he has seen a picture of Mauretania in dry dock with smoke or steam coming out of the funnels I think this is the picture 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Wouldn't Mauretania (being a Cunarder) have had Red funnels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipbury Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 5 hours ago, johnofwessex said: But he raised an interesting point, when steal ships, large oil burners in particular were dry docked did they ever keep any boilers in steam for auxiliary services as he has seen a picture of Mauretania in dry dock with smoke or steam coming out of the funnels I remember a 3 week drydock in Portland, Oregon on a three boiler steamship (Foster Wheeler ESD 3 I think?), anyway everything was shut down and we ran on shore power only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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