BR Construction sector working block movements of ballast

[Foden]

As the title suggests really, I’m wondering if Trainload Construction worked block movements of ballast and empties from quarry to engineers sidings / staging points, or whether these runs were exclusively handled by the engineers pool?

 

I’d thought one of my Sector DVDs had suggested that this block working was carried out by Construction, but have been unable to confirm that, so may have imagined it.

 

Equally are there any pictures anyone could share of 56s (not the engineers allocated examples) or 60s working air braked ballast hopper workings in the Trainload era, if the answer to the former question is yes

[scottishlocos]

Matt

 

Hope this helps but in the Trainload sector era BR owned some ballast quarries and had loading points for other BR approved ballast suppliers.

They owned the quarry at Meldon in Devon and Larbert in Scotland was used as a loading point for local ballast am sure each region at this time had at least one loading point for ballast.

 

As at this time these were non revenue earning trains it would be mainly class 20 26 33 37 even the odd 47 the 56 and 60s would have mainly been employed on revenue earning trains heavy stone steel oil and coal trains . It's not impossible that a type 5 was used for some of the BR ballast trains hope somebody else may have more details maybe even pictures

 

Dave

[scottishlocos]

Matt

 

The other point to be made is that 56s & 60s are air brake and the motley collection of civil engineers wagons at this time were vacuum brakes also i missed class 31 and 73 from my list above

[Foden]

Thanks Dave. I’m aware the engineers wagons came in a variety of often knackered beaten up vac braked flavours, I was thinking more about long block rakes of sealions and/or seacows working from the quarries to sidings such as Toton before being broken up into smaller rakes with other wagons for individual jobs.

 

In fact, I’m actually searching for a reason to use my type 5s on my planned layout of an engineers sidings if they were working under construction moving ballast, if that was ever an occurrence.

 

It’s either that or double the sidings up as also a staging point for merry go round rakes, and have my type 5s shifting coal to get them on the layout, but not sure how prototypical that idea is either (I was too young then to understand the workings)

 

Either way, I have a decent amount of Trainload era civil engineers locos and many wagons, so my heart is set on engineers sidings, but I also love my type 5s, and have several 56s, 60s, and 58s (which never moved stone under BR I know) which I’d love to run also.

[black and decker boy]

If you take the TLF freight era to include the shadow FOCs, trainload freight north east (later loadhaul), trainload freight south east (later mainline) and trainload freight west (later transrail, then yes, construction liveries locos incl type 5s worked engineers trains as they had all merged back from the regional / engineers pools.

 

In the early to mid 90s there was also massive investment in airbrake wagon conversions so the the vac-braked wagons& locos could be scrapped. The PGA conversions to Gunnels, POA conversions to Limpets and fleets of seahorses & sea urchins were part of this strategy.

[The Stationmaster]

You need to consider the various eras of management rather than just liveries.  The freight sectors and their relevant original (mainly commercial) organisations which controlled resources came into effective life in the late 1980s/very early '90s - they 'owned' locos (gradually painted into their liveries) but did not own the wagons used for BR ballast traffic as the latter still belonged to the Regional Civil Engineers while some locos still belonged to the Regions.  The train services were planned by Regional staff to specifications/requirements drawn up by the respective Regional Civil Engineers and usually the Regional train planners used locos drawn from the freight pools with the pool 'owner's' permission.  But during this period the big change was the transfer of all engineering related vehicles, including ballast wagons, and traction to the various engineering directorates which were established outwit the Regional organisations.  This meant that - taking the biggest example - the Director of Civil Engineering had his own fleet off wagons plus his own locos and, gradually, his own livery - but the services were actually planned in detail and resourced for train crew by Regional trainplanning offices.

 

In the 1992 re-organisation the Regions were abolished and everything was transferred to one of the sectors, including ballast etc wagons - thus, for example InterCity and NSE sectors had their own departmental fleets which had previously belonged to the Director of Civil Engineering and some even appeared in sector livery.  The planning of services changed a bit from the immediately previous arrangement as the freight business train planning offices (which handled the work for all the sub-sectors) used, generally freight sector owned traction and it basically came from the construction sector. But the new freight business structure included a management/commercial group to deal with departmental traffic basically for the other sectors and separate from the construction sector although it owned, AFAIK, any resources.  

 

That only lasted until 1994 when the shadow privatisation companies were set-up and everything was reorganised yet again  and I believe each of them ran its own departmental traffic business more or less as part of its construction side.  But by that time I'd had more than enough of freight and like several others who had put the organisation together for one of the new companies was well and truly shafted when nepotism reigned in the way that one filled the posts in the organisation we had designed.  So I returned to the passenger railway after a decade in freight.

[Foden]

Thank you for your input guys, and thank you very much Stationmaster for that very detailed insight. I had to read it over a couple of times before I could really digest all that was there, but it’s certainly gave me a much better idea of how the rather complex system functioned.

[NIK]

Matt

 

The other point to be made is that 56s & 60s are air brake and the motley collection of civil engineers wagons at this time were vacuum brakes also i missed class 31 and 73 from my list above

 

Hi,

 

Didn't Class 73s have vacuum brakes as one of their braking systems?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[SED Freightman]

I do not recall any regular use of TLF Construction locos on the weekday bulk ballast services operating on the Southern, although they may have appeared from time to time due to failures or if there happened to be a particularly heavy programme of weekend engineering work they may have been hired to the engineering functions.  On the former South Eastern Division there was a substantial programme of major works in the early 1990's associated with the impending opening of the Channel Tunnel with many ballast trains at weekends, some of which used high capacity air-braked wagons, no doubt TLF Construction locos will have appeared on these workings on some occasions.

 

Although not quite what was being looked for, the appended photo taken on 08/02/92 shows 56037 'Richard Trevithick' heading a very late running 1305 (6Z82) Folkestone West to Hoo Junction spoil train after failure en route of the train locos 33117 & 33012.

 

 

[The Bigbee Line]

I do not recall any regular use of TLF Construction locos on the weekday bulk ballast services operating on the Southern, although they may have appeared from time to time due to failures or if there happened to be a particularly heavy programme of weekend engineering work they may have been hired to the engineering functions.  On the former South Eastern Division there was a substantial programme of major works in the early 1990's associated with the impending opening of the Channel Tunnel with many ballast trains at weekends, some of which used high capacity air-braked wagons, no doubt TLF Construction locos will have appeared on these workings on some occasions.

 

Although not quite what was being looked for, the appended photo taken on 08/02/92 shows 56037 'Richard Trevithick' heading a very late running 1305 (6Z82) Folkestone West to Hoo Junction spoil train after failure en route of the train locos 33117 & 33012.

Nice picture.  Trying to ID the wagons.  They look like the JRA 33706790xxxx wagons, do you have a better shot?

[SED Freightman]

Nice picture.  Trying to ID the wagons.  They look like the JRA 33706790xxxx wagons, do you have a better shot?

 

Unfortunately I only have the one photo of this service. The wagons further back in the train may possibly have been some of those previously used for TML Channel Tunnel construction traffic.

[Calimero]

Reopening this, ballast out of Leyton came via Bow Midland. ECC trains from Croft? worked in with 56 or 60 by March men. We then had a job Bow Tripper which worked Leyton-Bow many times with a 37 and Turbots.

 

There was also a Redland Self-Discharge direct into Leyton again March men with a 60, the set had to be split down because pilot couldn't push the whole train into the yard.

 

Ballast was then distributed on the weekday services to outlying locations for the required engineering jobs.