RMweb Premium Chimer Posted February 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2018 Geographical error on my part , sorry (I was thinking of Leominster for some reason ) - but a Down train passing through Ledbury would still be a Down train passing through Pontrilas in the real world as well as on the Plan on the plan at Post No 72. Gloucester-Ledbury-Hereford-Pontrilas would not really be worth much as it would require reversal at Ledbury, just as Gloucester-Hereford - Pontrilas would require a reversal at Hereford. The shorter route from Birmingham would be via Worcester and Ledbury towards Pontrilas and pre-war it was a busy route for freight plus the occasional Birmingham - Cardiff passenger trains. Only a small number of the freights subsequently turned off down the Vale of Neath with most of them taking either the main line or the Eastern Valleys route south of Pontypool Road. Me too, I meant Worcester not Gloucester - I'll edit the original .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Well I must correct myself as, having actually consulted a timetable, there were trains that ran between Pontrilas and Ledbury. There were a few overnight and early morning freights from Pontypool Road and at least one Birmingham Passenger from South Wales, although it looks as though this didn't actually stop at Pontrilas or Ledbury: This is from the Summer 1936 WTT. There are probably more trains (including down trains) but it is late and there's 120 pages of timetable to go through to find them! Although it is academic to this exercise, the freights did not go through Hereford Barrs Court but Barton and onto the Worcester line via Shelwick Junction. Hereford had quite a complex of lines including the Brecon Curve which would have allowed an up train from Pontrilas to run onto Gloucester without needing to reverse at Barrs Court. This is best explained by a map but all the maps I have are in books and are probably copyright. My interest is in the Shrewsbury to Hereford line but this thread has made me finally drag my head through what happened south of Hereford. So thanks for that. If I find a map I will put it up here. PS: the layout at 72 does reflect the correct direction of traffic for this way of working Edited February 23, 2018 by Brassey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 23, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2018 Well I must correct myself as, having actually consulted a timetable, there were trains that ran between Pontrilas and Ledbury. There were a few overnight and early morning freights from Pontypool Road and at least one Birmingham Passenger from South Wales, although it looks as though this didn't actually stop at Pontrilas or Ledbury: I did a quick run through the Down trains in the 1938 Service TT yesterday evening and there were about 4/5 weekday Birmingham - Cardiff through passenger trains via Worcester & Hereford, it probably balanced in the opposite direction. The 1952 public timetable shows a similar number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Well! That's a bit of a turn-up! I think we may have as much as a near dammit possible probable layout at #72 subject to tweaks and revisions notwithstanding. I have a funny feeling that I shall have to invoke Rule 2* from time to time on the layout. In terms of strict prototype operation, it will have to be a case that once a train leaves Ledbury (or Pontrilas) it has gone 'elsewhere'. If there happens to be more than one operator then it will be a case of receiving or dispatching a 'train' in a prototype manner, regardless of whether it should have been there or not. I really can't thank you all enough for your ideas and historical information. I am going to ask my son-in-law who is a bit of a mechanical whizz, of the possibility of rigging something up following Harlequin's idea of a giant turntable - otherwise it'll be a variation of gordon s's traverser. I'm not going to let the thread disappear as I'll keep you all updated regarding the building works, especially once I get started on the barn. I've put back the scaffolding for a week - we're having a spell of cold weather - down to -15°C (chill factor included) at the beginning of next week. Stairs are completed (subject to final fixing), laid the last step at 7pm (your time) this evening. Will I have to start a new thread once the layout construction starts? Dymented could be a good title . Cheers and thanks again, Philip * Rule 2? See Rule 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 I thought I'd add this too: I do have another project on the back-burner for a rainy day. 00 scale model of the Walnut Tree Viaduct at (was) Taff's Well. I'd done a lot of research via t'intertubes and found a lot of photographs. I'm pleased to say that my original 'guesstimate' of its size was pretty much spot-on as I acquired later by pure chance a copy of some original engineering drawings. It's taken a while to assemble enough cardboard to start the thing - 6.2m long overall and 50cm high at the deepest part. Oh yes, it will be built (even if I only get a few spans done I'll be happy). The longest span is only 720mm so it can be built bit by bit. Just need the dining room table and lots of cutter blades (and sticking plasters!) . Cheers, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2018 I thought I'd add this too: I do have another project on the back-burner for a rainy day. 00 scale model of the Walnut Tree Viaduct at (was) Taff's Well. I'd done a lot of research via t'intertubes and found a lot of photographs. I'm pleased to say that my original 'guesstimate' of its size was pretty much spot-on as I acquired later by pure chance a copy of some original engineering drawings. It's taken a while to assemble enough cardboard to start the thing - 6.2m long overall and 50cm high at the deepest part. Oh yes, it will be built (even if I only get a few spans done I'll be happy). The longest span is only 720mm so it can be built bit by bit. Just need the dining room table and lots of cutter blades (and sticking plasters!) . Cheers, Philip Love it - I did at one time have the idea of fitting it into the corner of a proposed layout although shortened (I then moved the layout idea from the Valleys to, guess where - yes, the North & West Line). You might like to think about lasercut components as the structure is very repetitive! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) Hello Mike, In between the grandchildren and the stairs, I did a little (skimmed perhaps) reading on the LNWR. I never realised just how big or powerful company it was prior to the 'Big Four'. It does seem to me that the LMS was in effect the LNWR in all but name. I did want to ask, and I hope you'll forgive me if you're into making locos and rolling stock, where can I get some RTR models that would give the flavour of LNWR running through Pontrilas? I can only see one loco in the Bachmann range that is LNWR (D2?) and as far as I can tell, no coaching stock to be had from anyone. I did do kits years ago (plastic coaches and whitemetal locos) but what was passible then ....... quite frankly I don't think my skills would be up to scratch when I look at the pictures of some of the finished kit built items out there. (Mind you, I have seen some stuff on the web and I think .....eueuh! Even my kits from 40 years look as good). Time is the main factor here for me (and probably most of us - unfortunately). Regards, Philip PS: Thanks for the laser cut idea - as this is long term I'll put up with cutting strips the same width over and over and over ................. what was that address again ? Edited February 25, 2018 by Philou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Hello Mike, In between the grandchildren and the stairs, I did a little (skimmed perhaps) reading on the LNWR. I never realised just how big or powerful company it was prior to the 'Big Four'. It does seem to me that the LMS was in effect the LNWR in all but name. I did want to ask, and I hope you'll forgive me if you're into making locos and rolling stock, where can I get some RTR models that would give the flavour of LNWR running through Pontrilas? I can only see one loco in the Bachmann range that is LNWR (D2?) and as far as I can tell, no coaching stock to be had from anyone. I did do kits years ago (plastic coaches and whitemetal locos) but what was passible then ....... quite frankly I don't think my skills would be up to scratch when I look at the pictures of some of the finished kit built items out there. (Mind you, I have seen some stuff on the web and I think .....eueuh! Even my kits from 40 years look as good). Time is the main factor here for me (and probably most of us - unfortunately). Regards, Philip PS: Thanks for the laser cut idea - as this is long term I'll put up with cutting strips the same width over and over and over ................. what was that address agaithere There are currently two LNWR locos available in RTR, both by Bachmann. The Super D and the coal tank. Currently the only rolling stock would have to be sourced from kits. However, by the 1930's the ratio of LNW locos and stock would be very much reduced with much more Derby and Stanier designs handling traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 @Denbridge Silly me! I forgot about the Webb Coal tank - I have it here already with a sound chip in it but nowhere to go. But thank you for the advice regarding the Super D. I shall need to wait until the end of the month - which being February is that much closer - though I think the stock at a certain Liverpool supplier was restricted to LMS/BR versions. I was asking regarding the coaching stock as I saw some on the web yesterday - they looked very smart - but they were kits (brass if I recall). Cheers, Philip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) @Denbridge Silly me! I forgot about the Webb Coal tank - I have it here already with a sound chip in it but nowhere to go. But thank you for the advice regarding the Super D. I shall need to wait until the end of the month - which being February is that much closer - though I think the stock at a certain Liverpool supplier was restricted to LMS/BR versions. I was asking regarding the coaching stock as I saw some on the web yesterday - they looked very smart - but they were kits (brass if I recall). Cheers, Philip Ratio make LNWR 50' Arc roof corridor stock in plastic kit format and are relatively easy to put together. The challenge that you have already alluded to is the livery. Jol Wilkinson penned an article in MRJ a few years back now on reproducing the LNWR livery on coach kits Current suppliers of LNWR brass coach kits are London Road Models and Stevensons Carriages. Worsley Works do some too. And Wizard/51L have a few also. No connection to any beyond being a customer of every one. The chances of any RTR stock is very slim Edited February 26, 2018 by Brassey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Ratio make LNWR 50' Arc roof corridor stock in plastic kit format and are relatively easy to put together. The challenge that you have already alluded to is the livery. Jol Wilkinson penned an article in MRJ a few years back now on reproducing the LNWR livery on coach kits Current suppliers of LNWR brass coach kits are London Road Models and Stevensons Carriages. Worsley Works do some too. And Wizard/51L have a few also. No connection to any beyond being a customer of every one. The chances of any RTR stock is very slim Normally, I'd totally agree regarding rolling stock. However, looking at releases over the last few years, nothing is impossible, however unlikely. the manufacturers and commissioners of models are finding pre group sells well. Though as always any coaches would inevitably be only a representative selection. Usually missing vehicles required to make an authentic rake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 26, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) The most common LNWR locos were the Super Ds/their predecessor 0-8-0s and the Coal Tanks with some passenger workings through to Merthyr from the north in the hands of 'Cauliflower' 0-6-0s. LNWR working south of Hereford was basically traffic to/from the MT&A (see link below) and was mainly freight (in fact having just looked through the 1891 Service timetable I can only find one LNWR passenger train through from Hereford onto the MT&A in the Down direction!) although in later years LMS stock worked over the main line through to South Wales. the larger LNWR passenger engines don't seem to have worked south of Hereford although in BR times there were some incursions south of Hereford by LMS design 4-6-0s through to Cardiff or Newport on passenger trains. Model availability has really been covered above for the LNWR and ex LNWR period. The Super Ds and coal Tanks lasted into the early 1950s but teh tank engines, in articular were not only succeeded by LMDS design engines but very quickly gave way to Swindon design panniers after the WR takeover of the MT&A and the remaining connecting services into various valleys to the south of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merthyr,_Tredegar_and_Abergavenny_Railway My own interest is really late 1950s/early '60s as that allows 'warship diesels on the through trains from the West oF England to the North West plus the 'Castles' working from Shrewsbury and Newton Abbot which covered those trains prior to the diesels. You could probably mix & match a few periods of history by ignoring developments. Partly by accident you happen to have picked the principal GWR route for coal out of South Wales towards the London area in pre-Severn Tunnel days and you could no doubt apply some geographical/time bending if you wanted. I have GWR Service Timetables for the route for 1947, 1938, and some from even earlier although as Brassey noted that ere an awful lot of pages to wade through. Michael Clemens excellent website has soem ideal material for the route as well including these - Shrewsbury, Worcester, Hereford & Newport, Summer 1936 http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=626 Winter 1948 http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=596 Winter 1949 http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=621 and others - look at Section 12 STTs on this list http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=592 Edited February 26, 2018 by The Stationmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) You are such top guys! Not only help and ideas with the layout but information on stock movements, and where to get rolling stock, to boot! I am so pleased that I started the topic and that you've ALL had such positive things to say - even though some of the ideas haven't been followed through to the end. Kind regards, Philip PS: As I said above, I am not going to let this die off as I am here most evenings. I might have to start a new topic in a more appropriate thread, once the barn improvements start. BTW, I wish I hadn't put the scaffolding off by a week - the forecast is temperatures reaching +20°C after the weekend - Scorchio! (Welsh for hot - I think! ). Edited February 26, 2018 by Philou 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 26, 2018 Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 (edited) @ Mike Just had a quick peruse of the information in Michael Clemens' website - it is excellent. I may have to add an Ivatt 2-6-2T to my shopping list (card dashes for cover). Thank you. @ Brassey I agree - it was the livery that caught my eye. I do have an unbuilt Ratio coach in stock lurking in the bottom of a crate - I have a feeling it may be an LMS non-corridor one tho'. I'll dig it out tomorrow and have a look. Cheers, Philip Edited February 26, 2018 by Philou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 (edited) I can't remember whether it was covered earlier but before the Honeybourne line through Winchcombe Todddington etc was opened 1908 ish Gloucester - Ledbury - Worcester was the GWR Goods route from Gloucester to Birmingham and the North. Over sidings at Gloucester just over the river Severn from the Ledbury junction faced West for this reason, very awkward in later years when traffic went East for North instead of West. Edited February 27, 2018 by DavidCBroad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 @ DavidCBroad I didn't know that, though it was mentioned earlier that it was a route to London before the Severn tunnel was built. Good to know though - any excuse for a bit of 'Rule 1' . Regards, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 Chums, Just a quickie or those that might have been following the stairway to hell heaven saga: Here is a photo of the finished thing (well - not quite as I have to back-fill the join between the render and the stairs). I just hope I can do a decent job in the barn laying the new floor . It is about 4m up in the air!!! Domestic harmony has ensued for a while. She must be pleased as she didn't bat an eyelid when I announced that there was yet another parcel arriving for me on Saturday (no not the Super D, that'll be next week - this week is the GBrF Class 66 'Evening Star'). Cheers, Philip 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Can anyone guess what was the wood I used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Stab in the dark: Sweet Chestnut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 @ Phil No - much rarer than that - not exotic tho'. UK/European. I doubt if anyone has stock of it anymore. Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 @ Phil No - much rarer than that - not exotic tho'. UK/European. I doubt if anyone has stock of it anymore. Philip Oak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Regret not sorry Phillip. Best source would be the relevant volume of Tony Cooke's 'Track layout Diagrams of the Great Western Railway and BR(WR)' if there has been one which covered Ledbury. Trouble most are long out of print and I'm not at all sure which volume, if any, covered it but there is a full list of them here altho' alas it isn't very helpful - https://www.transportstore.com/Cooke-Ra-Track-Layout-Diagrams-Of-The-Gwr-And-Br-Wr-Book-9364-427.cfm Lightmoor Press sometimes come up with back numbers and describe the contents fairly helpfully. The SRS site has the signalbox diagram (in a small scale) which gives a bit of a clue but is obviously incomplete regarding any sidings beyond the signalbox worked points - https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gws/S2620.htm Ledbury is covered in one of the OPC volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Must be Elm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Must be Elm! Oh yeah. Dutch Elm Disease and all that D'oh. I thought Oak because it is protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2018 Here are my stairs - practicing my carpentry skills before tackling the barn and the railway framework. I cannot believe it has taken four (yes -4!) days to set up 2 steps. Mind you when I pulled out the old treads and risers not only they were full of worm (dead!) but the stringers had crumbled too - ho hum. 20180212_123404_resized.jpg Philip I have some to do at my house in France. Yours look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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