AWS - BR Southern Region

[Right Away]

Do any of our esteemed members recall when AWS was brought into service on the various sections of the Southern Region.

There are many photographic records of steam locomotives so fitted from around 1960 but I would be interested to know when the system actually went "live" over the various SR routes.

I can recall my late father, who was a Motorman at Brighton, mentioning many years ago that initial trials revealed an undesirable interaction with the conductor rail; did this delay the implementation of AWS on electrified lines.

As an aside, which EMU types were NEVER equipped with AWS. I'm thinking perhaps anything pre-EP stock.

[DY444]

Yes there was a problem with AWS on third rail lines and the initial installation on the SR was mainly on steam worked lines.  This was completed in the early 60s.  The first widespread adoption on an electrified SR line came with the resignalling and associated work done for the Bournemouth electrification.  It was (very) gradually installed on the other electrified lines either during resignalling or just as a stand alone programme where resignalling had already happened (eg Kent Coast routes) or was some way off (eg Coastway lines).  

 

However it was the late 70s until the SWD was fully equipped and well into the 80s before the Brighton and Kent Coast lines were. 

 

Very little if any of the pre-war SR stock was fitted and I'm pretty sure the post war 4SUBs weren't either.  All EP stock got it eventually although for many years the only stock with it was REPs and TCs, and SW CIGs and VEPs.   Most BI CIGs for example didn't get it until the late 70s as the only route they ran over which was equipped was Forest Hill to London Bridge.

Edited February 21, 2018 by DY444

[david.hill64]

AWS on the SR had to be fitted with high strength magnets. As the OP notes the (magnetic field from the) conductor rail could interfere with the functioning of the standard system.

[jim.snowdon]

AWS on the SR had to be fitted with high strength magnets. As the OP notes the (magnetic field from the) conductor rail could interfere with the functioning of the standard system.

Correct, although I suspect the problem is not so much the conductor rail itself, which is over a metre away from the AWS receiver and whose field is not only parallel to the track but influenced by the field from the return current in the rails, but the magnetic field from the cross track cables. There are strict rules about where these cables are placed in relation to AWS magnets.

 

Jim

[a98087]

Don't forget the colour difference! Yellow for standard strength green for extra strong.

 

Or at a resignalling project the contractors were told that they had fitted the wrong colour magnet and were told to replace it- they just tried to repaint it instead!

[phil-b259]

The Southern Region was also very wary about AWS due to the way it was necessary for peak time train near London to spend lots of time running from double yellow to double yellow and drivers getting 'used' to repeatedly cancelling the AWS then SPADding a red signal (with similar results to what happened at Purley in 1989).

 

AWS is inherently unsuitable for use in anything other than areas signalled according to mechanical signalling principles due to its inability to differentiate between red, single yellow, double yellow or flashing aspects.

 

As such the SR were pushing for the development of a more advanced system (akin to the Irish CAWS which has the individual signal aspects shown in the cab) and thus were reluctant to install BR AWS until a number of fatal collisions effectively forced their hand.

Edited February 22, 2018 by phil-b259

[Right Away]

If memory serves me right, even after events like Lewisham, the Southern management were preferring to concentrate their budget in the upgrading of signalling.

[phil-b259]

If memory serves me right, even after events like Lewisham, the Southern management were preferring to concentrate their budget in the upgrading of signalling.

 

This is also true - and to an extent the SR were justified as the much superior viability of colour light signals does means that replacing mechanical stuff also counts as a SPAD mitigation measure

[mike hughes]

One of our late club members (West Sussex O gauge group) was involved in the AWS project on the Southern. I believe it was the 60’s. I believe Arundel was installed with AWS post the resignalling in 79. Believe the drawings are dated 82

[david.hill64]

The Southern Region was also very wary about AWS due to the way it was necessary for peak time train near London to spend lots of time running from double yellow to double yellow and drivers getting 'used' to repeatedly cancelling the AWS then SPADding a red signal (with similar results to what happened at Purley in 1989).

 

AWS is inherently unsuitable for use in anything other than areas signalled according to mechanical signalling principles due to its inability to differentiate between red, single yellow, double yellow or flashing aspects.

 

As such the SR were pushing for the development of a more advanced system (akin to the Irish CAWS which has the individual signal aspects shown in the cab) and thus were reluctant to install BR AWS until a number of fatal collisions effectively forced their hand.

When we were looking at alternatives to full ATP, the southern's Signal Repeating AWS was considered as a possibility. I cannot remember now exactly why it was not taken forward - it's 25 years ago now.

[roythebus]

The post-war SUB units weren't fitted with AWS as there was no low voltage supply on the units to work it! No speedometers either. There's been a thread on the closed "Lost Boys" FB group in the last few days regarding the SR signal-repeating AWS system but few of the member remember much about it! 

 

The Dorking-Horsham road was not fitted with AWS during my days on there up to 1988.

 

We'd think nothing of running out of Waterloo in the evening peak on doubly yellows all the way to Woking at up to 90mph, getting 2 lots of DYs all the way. That honking bloody horn used to drive me mad!!