Boston Lodge Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Hello. Has anyone ever successfully managed to copper plate a model at home? I've been slowly assembling parts to make a model of one of Edmund Bury's 1836 0-4-0 Goods engines. These were the earliest iteration of 'Old Copperknob' as seen at NRM. If you know the prototype you will know that one principle feature is the polished copper firebox. I've had a few goes at creating a 4mm version and my best attempt used a 15mm copper fitting for the cylinder bit and sheets of lead to form the dome. This provides a substantial weight but needs colouring. This website suggested that it could be done using electrolysis. http://www.instructables.com/id/High-Quality-Copper-Plating/ Here's my attempt. It started like this: After 20 minutes using a AA 1.5V battery produced this: Fair to say it hasn't really worked, especially on the lead sheets. Has anyone had any success with this or any other copper plating method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2018 I cannot say why I am not surprised about the poor response of the lead, but I am not. Maybe one of the electroless processes would work, the sort that will coat even plastics and used as a precursor to electroplating. I am familiar (a long time ago) with electroless "strike" to provide a base for further plating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You are getting some copper down. The surface to be plated must be spotless and grease / oil free. It should be polished first then cleaned (I use an acid dip) If you wish mask any areas you dont want plated, this will help concentrate the deposition on the areas required. 20 minutes is way to short and the voltage is low, I normally use a battery charger at 6v or 12V. I have not tried plating Lead but it should be OK You may see fine bubbles on the plating surface, if so gently shake to lose these. If a lot of dynamic bubbles, less volts. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 I've had a few goes at creating a 4mm version and my best attempt used a 15mm copper fitting for the cylinder bit and sheets of lead to form the dome. hi there, just wondering, can you disassemble the parts? I would assume that both could be plated individually and assembled afterwards. I am no chemist, but lead and copper act very differently in electolytic liquids. As long as both parts have elctric contact, one surface will be likely eaten while the other one will build a plating. If you can't separate the parts, you might try to protect one metal surface with some kind of temporary coating. The goal should be to isolate one metal completely from the electrolyte. best regard, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Lodge Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 Thanks for the replies and ideas. I'm tempted to have another bash, perhaps using a 9V battery this time and treat the lead and copper pipe separately. (nothing to lose) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 Another thing to watch is how the item you want to plate is suspended, (generally by fine wire) but ensure the areas you want plated are well surrounded by the electrolyte and are well clear from other items which could screen them, to close to another conducting surface will result in a thin or patchy coating in that area. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambretta Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 dont forget to add some salts to the water washing soda works well i used this in reverse to remove rust off some scooter parts onto a piece of sacrificial steel and yes you need a battery charger to give enough power for it to work well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 From memory, in school chemistry lessons we used copper sulphate solution as the electrolyte. You should be able to get it from a garden centre, at least as Bordeaux Mixture if not straight. Also, make sure the lead is properly clean. It develops an oxide layer very quickly which, I would imagine, will inhibit current flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGi Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) If you google for "electroplating copper onto lead" you get a lot of hits where people ask about copper plating lead bullets. The general consensus is that electroplating onto lead is not something which should be done by the hobbyist. e.g. Q. I want to plate lead bullets with copper. What method should I use. Is cyanide still available and not a banned substance? Stan Kaczor - Port Elizabeth, East Cape, South Africa July 21, 2009 A. Hi, Stan. Cyanide is not banned in the USA, although it may be banned in South Africa. But the fact that this very powerful poison is available to trained workers in industry doesn't necessarily mean that a hobbyist can easily get it. Lead is very hard and dangerous to plate really properly: it also requires hydrofluoric acid to activate, which is about the nastiest chemical the plating industry deals with. As hobbyists have reported here, the processes they use offer no adhesion and they are relying on sort of a "shrink wrap" effect to hold the plating on. We don't censor people, so we've printed their suggestions ... but it certainly doesn't mean we accept them as less than very hazardous. Regards, Ted Mooney, finishing.com Teds signature Ted Mooney, P.E. finishing.com Pine Beach, New Jersey More information here https://www.finishing.com/294/14.shtml Edited May 19, 2018 by JohnGi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGi Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 My last post seemed more negative than I intended. What I meant to convey was that electroplating directly onto the lead seemed to be discouraged for hobbyists, but there's no reason why you couldn't follow a process using an intermediate step as suggested by an earlier poster. I cannot say why I am not surprised about the poor response of the lead, but I am not. Maybe one of the electroless processes would work, the sort that will coat even plastics and used as a precursor to electroplating. I am familiar (a long time ago) with electroless "strike" to provide a base for further plating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dava Posted May 19, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2018 Is it worth considering alternative methods? Commissioning a 3D print to make a pattern and then casting from that is shown here: https://i.materialise.com/blog/3d-printing-copper/ Melting point of copper is 1085C so it's not really a DIY project unless you have a little furnace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Lodge Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thanks for all the replies. I'm not ashamed to say that I abandoned this idea. It sounded like an easy way to turn brass and lead into copper but the results just never matched the dream. I will be painting these bits once the model is ready for it. The ideal solution (sorry!) would be to make the whole thing out of copper bar using a lathe. Maybe one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Maybe a 3D printed firebox in brass, then copperplate that, would do the trick? EDIT TO ADD: You can get Rose Gold plated brass as a finish from Shapeways. Rose Gold effectively being very expensive copper. Edited June 10, 2018 by Quarryscapes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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