School Project - The Victorian Railway

[Caley Jim]

.......it would appear the first class passenger did have “coach built” bodies, a la stagecoach, with such trimmings as panelling with the joins covered with mouldings, and “tumblehomes”..........Second class were simpler, maybe no tumblehome, just flushsides, and the poor bloody third class would survive in coaches with outside framing and planking showing......

When the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway opened in 1842 they had 1st class (upholstered seats and glass in the windows), 2nd class (bench seats and no glass in the windows), 3rd class (no roofs) and 4th class.  I'll leave arrangements of the latter for you to work out for yourself, but there was handrail round the edge for you to hold on to!

 

Jim

[Hroth]

A wonderful model!

 

The S&D seems to have had a couple of these Stephenson 'Planet' Class 2-2-0s for passenger work in the 1830s, which, rather splendidly, they referred to as "coaching work", hence, a passenger locomotive is a "coaching locomotive".  They had a third, which I think was a Hawthorns copy of the type, IIRC. 

In a similar vein, the Liverpool and Manchester had "unusual" locomotive classifications too, the Lion, for example , was a "luggage" locomotive.

[Ian Simpson]

... and 4th class.  I'll leave arrangements of the latter for you to work out for yourself, but there was handrail round the edge for you to hold on to!

 

Jim

 

Sounds a bit like the Class 700 EMUs during the rush hour    

[Albyn]

When the Edinburgh and Glasgow Railway opened in 1842 they had 1st class (upholstered seats and glass in the windows), 2nd class (bench seats and no glass in the windows), 3rd class (no roofs) and 4th class.  I'll leave arrangements of the latter for you to work out for yourself, but there was handrail round the edge for you to hold on to!

 

Jim

 

4th Class stood in open trucks, originally thirds I believe but banned by govt legislation, but the kindly management did provide handrails and did drill lots of holes in the floors to let out the rain water, though this made them rather drafty.  

[Hroth]

4th Class stood in open trucks, originally thirds I believe but banned by govt legislation, but the kindly management did provide handrails and did drill lots of holes in the floors to let out the rain water, though this made them rather drafty.  

On 24th December 1841, a GWR "luggage train" from Paddington to Bristol consisting in order of Hecla (a Leo class loco) three open third class "carriages" and some well laden goods wagons, ran into a landslip in Sonning Cutting, killing 9 and injuring a further 16.  One of the results of this accident was a legal requirement to carry third class passengers in enclosed accommodation.  If the Edinburgh and Glasgow were carrying 4th(!) class passengers in open wagons, they must have thought that they could get away with open accommodation by inventing a new lower class....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonning_Cutting_railway_accident

 

One of the features of the accident was that the GWR was fined using a medieval instrument called a deodand.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodand

 

edit for typo/spelin....

Edited March 20, 2018 by Hroth

[Ian Simpson]

On 24th December 1841, a GWR "luggage train" from Paddington to Bristol consisting in order of Hecla (a Leo class loco) three open third class "carriages" and some well laden goods wagons, ran into a landslip in Sonning Cutting, killing 9 and injuring a further 16.  One of the results of this accident was a legal requirement to carry third class passengers in enclosed accommodation.  If the Edinburgh and Glasgow were carrying 4th(!) class passengers in open wagons, they must have thought that they could get away with open accommodation by inventing a new lower class....

 

I think the E&G got a couple of years' use out of their open carriages. The abolition of open Thirds was the result of the Railway Regulation Act 1844. Then as now, government took time to respond after a disaster.

 

When the law came in most railway companies just stuck a roof over their open carriages. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Ian Simpson

[Regularity]

A better bet for me is the B/B1, (built from 1886), as these were County Durham stalwarts and the compound examples used to take mineral trains across the top to Tebay.

 

They are a suitable case for a resin or 3D print body manufacturer, because they have 5' (5'1 1/4") coupled wheels and an 8' + 8'6" w/b and that is pretty common for 0-6-0 tender engines, so I imagine a fit with an RTR chassis could be found.

 

Sounds like an exact match for a Midland 0-6-0: 3F or 4F.

[Killian keane]

In a similar vein, the Liverpool and Manchester had "unusual" locomotive classifications too, the Lion, for example , was a "luggage" locomotive.

The way I understand it, a 'coaching engine' is an express loco (2-2-0, later 2-2-2), a 'luggage engine' (usually a 0-4-2) is a mixed traffic engine, a 'Banking engine' is either a banker or a goods engine and a 'ballast engine' is either a goods engine or a P-Way engine (a task Rocket laboured at most of her working life having only pulled one recorded normal passenger train)

Reference was made above to the Hawthorn planets for the S&D, heres 'Sunbeam'

The first passenger engine on the S&D was no.9 'Globe', a personal favourite of mine

Edited March 20, 2018 by Killian keane

[Nearholmer]

What is that, presumably copper, sphere on top of that loco? A proto-dome? It looks like Hero’s engine.

[sem34090]

Killian, oh Killian...

 

D'yer have drawings?!

[Killian keane]

What is that, presumably copper, sphere on top of that loco? A proto-dome? It looks like Hero’s engine.

The dome I beleive, the steam turret extended from its rear which contained the regulator, on top there looks to be a safety valve

[Killian keane]

Killian, oh Killian...

 

D'yer have drawings?!

Unfortunately the only drawing I could find was a side on, she had 5' wheels so that should give the scale

P.S if you do this as a model I will see to it that you are knighted (which would make you Sir Sir Eustace Missenden (?))

Edit: I'm presuming you're refering to Globe, I've never seen Sunbeam drawn to scale

Edited April 1, 2018 by Killian keane

[sem34090]

Well, the one top right looks a bit easier than Derwent, and can probably use a few common components.

[Regularity]

Wow. One of them is climbing the walls...

[Nearholmer]

The two pictures of that loco pose so many questions!

 

How did the pistons act to drive the axles? Inside cylinders suggest cranked axles, but the layout hints at Crank pins on the rear of the wheels, connected to the axle via a flycrank.

 

And, where was the valve gear; and, how was the dome connected to the boiler; and, was the boiler of some strange cross-section; and, and and?

Edited March 20, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Shadow]

Did have a cranked axle.

 

From Graces Guide https://gracesguide.co.uk/Timothy_Hackworth:_Globe

 

 

[Compound2632]

Do we need a separate thread on Georgian locomotives?

[Nearholmer]

Amazing. Clearances must have been ‘ungenerous’.

 

Apparently it was the first loco ever to have a cranked axle.

[Killian keane]

Amazing. Clearances must have been ‘ungenerous’.

 

Apparently it was the first loco ever to have a cranked axle.

Apart from Novelty

There was actually a fair bit of animosity between the Stephensons and Hackworth over this loco, they claimed that a crank axle was too weak for practical use, but when they built it they found it was fine so delayed Globe to get Planet out first

The boiler was a marine type, with cross tubes arranged in a helical pattern so as to keep the gasses in contact with the flue for longer, (a remarkably efficient one too by all accounts but a pigs ear to maintain)

the cylinders were at the rear, driving the front axle

Edited March 20, 2018 by Killian keane

[Edwardian]

Possibly the first passenger engine on the line, Hackworth's No.9 Globe (1830) was ordered in order to take over passenger work on the Middlesbrough branch from the private contractors who ran horse-drawn passenger services.

 

Globe exploded in 1838 and was never repaired.

 

Wheels were 5', if anyone wants to scale from the drawing.

 

The 2-2-0 'Planet' Class also pictured is No.28 (later 43), Sunbeam (1837).  This was the Hawthorns copy of the Stephenson design that I mentioned a few posts back.  She had a relatively long life compared with some of the S&D 'earlies', apparently in service until 1864.

 

I don't know of a scale drawing of Sunbeam, but there are scale drawings of a number of the Stephenson locomotives that might be used as a basis. Sunbeam is quoted as having a 4' diameter leading wheel and a 5' driver.

[Nearholmer]

Is this about right?

 

I'm still struggling to make it all fit into the space ....... where was the cross head, for instance? And, where was the motion for the valves derived from? Eccentrics on the othe axle? Rocking levers?

 

Presumably it's been 'reverse engineered' in a paper to an Early Railways conference or similar.

[Killian keane]

Is this about right?

I'm still struggling to make it all fit into the space ....... where was the cross head, for instance? And, where was the motion for the valves derived from? Eccentrics on the othe axle? Rocking levers?

Presumably it's been 'reverse engineered' in a paper to an Early Railways conference or similar.

Thats right from what I can tell, the crosshead and slidebars would be just above the rear axle, the cylinders being inclined, I should imagibe there were two eccentrics just inboard of the boiler mountings with a similar set up to the valve gear on either Sans Pareil or Planet, going by the two levers on the footplate

[sem34090]

Well, Derwent has been printed. The quality is poor (as expected) but I'll get it cleaned up later.

[Edwardian]

Hackworth was evidently sufficiently proud of Globe to include it on his business card; hence we have a contemporary depiction of her tender.

 

The Hawthorn's 'Planet' type Sunbeam is illustrated by the photograph Killian posted.  The engraving below is plainly taken from that photograph.  As I say, I know of no scale drawing, but below is a drawing of a Stephenson 'Planet' type, representative of the type, which included S&D, No.10 Planet (1830), and No. 11 North Star (1830-1). 

 

Things developed quickly in 'the Earlies' (as Flashman calls the early decades of the Nineteenth Century), and there is a 7-year gap between the short-lived Globe and the long-lived Sunbeam, however, it is interesting to think the design of Sunbeam was contemporary with Globe, two of Stephenson's own 'Planet' types for the S&D dating from 1830, as did Globe.

 

Planet had 5' driving wheels, as did Sunbeam, with 3'1" leading wheels, whereas Sunbeam's were 4'.  North Star has 4'8" driving wheels, but the leading wheels' diameter is not quoted. 

 

EDIT: Note how the engraver has depicted the firebox on Sunbeam.  The sides may be clad in wood, I think this is just about discernable in the photograph, but he has assumed that the planking continues over the back-head, which strikes me as unlikely.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

In danger of causing gross diversion from topic, but .......

 

This early development is fascinating, because the progress from 'Rocket' to truly practical engines involved the move to inside cylinders, and getting them neatly integrated under the smoke box, and the provision of decent frames, rather than using the boiler-shell as a structural member.

 

Between them, they got through all this very swiftly, to arrive at the archetypal design.

 

And, talking of archetypes, does anyone here present know when and where the inside-cylinder 0-6-0 goods engine emerged? The S&D seems the place where it should have happened.

 

Thanks to the wonders of the internet, I think I've answered my own question. 1835 on the Leicester and Swannington ...... and it looks so modern. [Edit: see post further below ..... seems this loco was the second, not the first ..... despite what Wikipedia says!]

 

And a proper drawing here http://enuii.com/vulcan_foundry/photographs/Drawings/no%2010%20leicester%20&%20swannington%20%27Vulcan%27%201835.jpg

Edited March 21, 2018 by Nearholmer