Lenz Standard+ or Zimo M600R DCC decoder?

[NickC]

None of these CVs are complex, they all consist of an ID (the CV number) and a value.

 

Not understanding what they are there for is a different matter. Asking questions here is a good way to find out.

 

If you are happy with the Lenz decoder because it does not have all the 'complications' of a ZIMO, then that's fine. Your money your choice.

 

But that's an entirely different thing than criticising ZIMO decoders for having too many options to choose from, which is what you have done.

 

ZIMO may have the facility to use any of the CVs you mention above, but there is normally no need to use them as ZIMO's default values are usually well chosen. In fact for some of the one's mentioned, ZIMO state in the manual that they are unlikely to be used very often. But, here's the difference, if you need the facility, it's there ready for you. If you don't have it available on your decoders, and need it, then you will be out of luck.

 

However,as an example gear backlash CV146, is there to compensate if you have fitted the decoder to a well used model with worn gears. Using decoders without this facility results in jerky starts, especially after a change of direction. If you would be happy with basic decdoers which don't give this  option and are happy for your models to operate in a jerky fashion as a result, that's fine.

 

It's when you start realising what the others leave out which makes ZIMO such outstanding performers across a very wide range of models.

 

CV 123 is an NMRA specified CV. It can be (i.e. optionally if you want to) used to temporarilly change inertia and momentum to improve running locos in consist.

 

Most of the above in most of my ZIMO decoders is at the default value set by ZIMO.

 

Then there are added value features like the manual brake key for a more life-like driving experience. How many locos don't have a brake control? Turning off the power is not the same thing at all.

 

Difiicult to set up? Rubbish.

 

CV309, Brake Key. The value here is the number of the F key you wish to use to control the brake function. The clue is in the name, really.

CV349, Brake time. To stop in a short time set low values.

 

I do always set CV309 and CV349 in all my decoders, coupled with a high value in CV4 which allows realistically long 'coasting' which can be controlled with the brakes for precise stopping distances. And because I do, i've become familiar with the settings to use. (OK, I did design this feature for ZIMO so I am a bit biased on this point).

 

So, if you are happy to pay the same price and get less for your money, go ahead.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

Paul, I currently have 3 x Zimo MX600R and 1 x MX622N. Two of the MX600R have software version 37.1 and one has software version 36.5. The MX622N has software version 36.5. With the chips that have v37.1 I can program CV309 & CV349 and the braking function works great. With the chips that have software 36.5 when I try to program CV309 & CV349 they appear to program, but when I read them back they read as 0 and the Brake function does not work. Was the brake function added after software 36.5? and if so is it possible to update the software using a black Z21? and if so is it done on the programming track or on the main?

thanks

nick

[pauliebanger]

Paul, I currently have 3 x Zimo MX600R and 1 x MX622N. Two of the MX600R have software version 37.1 and one has software version 36.5. The MX622N has software version 36.5. With the chips that have v37.1 I can program CV309 & CV349 and the braking function works great. With the chips that have software 36.5 when I try to program CV309 & CV349 they appear to program, but when I read them back they read as 0 and the Brake function does not work. Was the brake function added after software 36.5? and if so is it possible to update the software using a black Z21? and if so is it done on the programming track or on the main?

thanks

nick

 

Nick,

 

The Brake Key is available on non-sound decoders in the latest software, but I don't know at which version each decoder type gained the facility.

 

It's always good policy to keep your decoders' software up to date to recieve bug fixes and new features (a big plus point for software updateable decoders over the 'also rans').

 

The current version is 37.3 (37.2 added some new features, 37.3 a couple of bug fixes) so I suggest you update all of your ZIMO decoders' software.

 

Here's the free download page at ZIMO. http://www.zimo.at/web2010/support/Decoder-SW-Update.htm

 

The 'full fat' Z21 is capable of loading updated software for ZIMO decoders. Last time I asked, which was a long time ago, they only officially supported the decoder types (families) which Roco have used in their rtr models. You will need to check this out as well as how to load the update with Z21 knowledgeable people - I can't offer much help there.

 

Good Luck,

 

Paul

[Nigelcliffe]

Paul, I currently have 3 x Zimo MX600R and 1 x MX622N. Two of the MX600R have software version 37.1 and one has software version 36.5. The MX622N has software version 36.5. With the chips that have v37.1 I can program CV309 & CV349 and the braking function works great. With the chips that have software 36.5 when I try to program CV309 & CV349 they appear to program, but when I read them back they read as 0 and the Brake function does not work. Was the brake function added after software 36.5? and if so is it possible to update the software using a black Z21? and if so is it done on the programming track or on the main?

thanks

nick

 

This page (lots of things to expand on it) shows Zimo firmware details.   It suggests a bug-fix for braking functions at v37 for the decoders in question, which would imply an update may resolve the matter.  I think the brake key first arrived at V34 for sound decoders, or thereabouts.    

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/support/Decoder-SW-Update.htm

 

Updates should be possible on a Z21, it will be on the programming track.  You'll need the firmware file downloaded from Zimo.  Thereafter, consult Roco manuals, or internet for instructions on exactly how. 

[NickC]

Well it appears I can't upgrade the firmware on the MX600R using the Z21 as the Maintenance app tries and then says a MX600 is not a supported decoder. I also can't upgrade the firmware on a MX622 either. In this case it is recognised (and CV144 is set to 0) but the upgrade fails with "error whilst sending 1st security byte". Z21 is running firmware v1.30 and Maintenance App is v1.12 build 1155

[pauliebanger]

Well it appears I can't upgrade the firmware on the MX600R using the Z21 as the Maintenance app tries and then says a MX600 is not a supported decoder. I also can't upgrade the firmware on a MX622 either. In this case it is recognised (and CV144 is set to 0) but the upgrade fails with "error whilst sending 1st security byte". Z21 is running firmware v1.30 and Maintenance App is v1.12 build 1155

 

Nick,

 

That suggests that Roco policy remains the same - only support for decoder types they have used in Roco or Fleischman models.

 

Perhaps someone local to you has the necessary ZIMO interface? (if you put a location in your profile - nearest town maybe - then you may get some help from members here).

 

Or a local club?

 

Failing that, any ZIMO dealer will be able to do these software updates for you, it only takes a minute or so. Or ask your supplier; I expect any charge would be nominal, the postage costs will be more significant I would imagine.

 

Too late for your existing purchases, but I would recommend that you ask your supplier to ensure that the latest software has been loaded before dispatch.

 

Or get them from a retailer who has a high turn-over of ZIMO decoders as they are most likely to have fresh stocks with the latest software already on board. Digitrains probably sell more ZIMO decoders than all the other authorised dealers combined.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Vecchio]

The decoder update is described in the Z21 maintenance manual. It says that only Zimo decoders which are used by Roco can be updated. So I suppose there is no MX600 built into any Roco locomotive. Which is a shame as I think the MX 600 is a very useful little decoder which covers the majority of needs and even allows stay alive connection.

Also it says it only works for the later generations of decoders - so I do not know if the MX622 is supported or not (Edit:- uups - the 622 is current, it was the 620 which is phased out.)

And it may not work if you are using stay alive capacitors. Means for me this would be already the problem as I use stay alive on every locomotive where I find space...

I still have my old MXDECUP - but I didn't use it for 10 (?) years... but I remember also this one has a problem with capacitors. This means in case you want an update it is time to grab the soldering iron.... (Or you have a new loco with a socket - in this case you need a socket for programming, connected to the updater).

 

The question for me is - are there still so many bugs? At the time I purchased the Mxdecup there were quite significant changes, so I normally updated my decoders before putting them into a loco - as you will not get the latest software version when you buy a decoder.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Vecchio

[pauliebanger]

The decoder update is described in the Z21 maintenance manual. It says that only Zimo decoders which are used by Roco can be updated. So I suppose there is no MX600 built into any Roco locomotive. Which is a shame as I think the MX 600 is a very useful little decoder which covers the majority of needs and even allows stay alive connection.

Also it says it only works for the later generations of decoders - so I do not know if the MX622 is supported or not (Edit:- uups - the 622 is current, it was the 620 which is phased out.)

And it may not work if you are using stay alive capacitors. Means for me this would be already the problem as I use stay alive on every locomotive where I find space...

I still have my old MXDECUP - but I didn't use it for 10 (?) years... but I remember also this one has a problem with capacitors. This means in case you want an update it is time to grab the soldering iron.... (Or you have a new loco with a socket - in this case you need a socket for programming, connected to the updater).

 

The question for me is - are there still so many bugs? At the time I purchased the Mxdecup there were quite significant changes, so I normally updated my decoders before putting them into a loco - as you will not get the latest software version when you buy a decoder.

 

Your MXDECUP should work even with capacitors attached. Do you include a choke coil in your circuit.This will help.

 

Also, there was a hardwear update for MXDECUP 7 or 8 years ago, did you have that done? I can't now remember the reason for it, but it was a simple addition of a resistor, something you could perform yourself. I still have the details somewhere if you need help.

 

I mainly use an MXULF (many advantages) but occassionally need the old MXDECUP I started with if I have a lot of decoders to programme in a short space of time. I always use stay alive caps where possible and don't have any difficulties with programming. I find that allowing the caps to fully charge before attempting to programme gives reliable results.

 

I don't know why Roco only support programming and updating certain ZIMO decoders. It could be a licensing issue or they might be reluctant to allow their kit to work with the others as they do not have in-house experience of them if user have problems.

 

Mostly, software updates are for new features or improvements/expansion of existing features, but bugfixes are addressed from time to time.

 

Time to dust off that MXDECUP and get updating. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited March 29, 2018 by pauliebanger

[Vecchio]

Thanks for the info. Will have a look at it... 

Vecchio

[NickC]

There do not appear to be any Zimo dealers around here, so I need to find a person or club that has a Zimo decoder programmer and is based in west Devon or east Cornwall who might be willing to let me borrow or use their programmer. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks

[greslet]

 

 

....although in view of what Paul says I'm tempted to give Nos. 309 and 349 a try...

 

 

DT

 

For best results, set CV4 at 100 or above. This will allow long coasting duration(heavy train).

 

CV309 = X where X is a free F key (in preference set at 'momentary' operation for optimal brake application/release operation).

CV349 = 6.

 

To operate, when train is moving, reduce throttle (partly or to zero) the presss the F key assigned in CV309. As long as the key is engaged, the brake effect will progressively intensify. Releasing the Brake Key, even after a short 'dab' will reset the brake force at the start figure ready for the next application. As a real driver would do, you can now control the rate of deceleration by applying, releasing and re-applying the brake key. Or leave the brake key engaged for a 'controlled emergency stop'.

 

Good luck; once you have experienced the control a Brake Function key will give you, you'll wonder why all decoders don't have this feature. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[greslet]

Am I right in thinking the ZIMO 600 supports asymmetric DCC while the LENZ standard doesn’t?

[greslet]

Is one key difference that the ZIMO MX600 supports asymmetric DCC and the Lenz standard+ doesn’t?

[RFS]

Is one key difference that the ZIMO MX600 supports asymmetric DCC and the Lenz standard+ doesn’t?

 

The Lenz Standard+ does support asymmetric DCC.  See section 5.7 in the Lenz manual for this decoder. 

[NickC]

The Lenz Standard+ does not support asymmetric DCC (otherwise known as ABC). The newer Lenz Standard+ V2 does support asymmetric DCC.

However, in my opinion, the Zimo decoder has a better implementation of asymmetric DCC which is smoother and more tuneable.

[greslet]

Good to know, I’m about to standardise on Zimo for everything

[shibushe]

I am currently trying to standardise on decoders across my diesel fleet since Bachmann have withdrawn their excellent 36-553 and 36-554 ESU based decoders. 

 

21 pin dcc ready locos are being fitted with the Lenz 21+ decoder and I am now seeking the best decoder for 8 pin fitted locos.

 

My fleet comprises Hornby, Bachmann and Heljan diesel locos all withe central mounted motors and therefore quiet a high current draw. 

 

I have tried the Zimo M600R in Bachman and Heljan locos and it works well but the lack of a simple Function crib sheet is putting me off them.  The Lenz standard+ is £2 cheaper than the Zimo and has much simpler instructions.

 

Which would you choose?

I have  over the years tried many decoders. never rely been happy with a lot of them until I tried Zimo back in the days when most of my stock was tender drive Zimo was the only decoder that would perform.

I now only use Zimo.

I also found as a recent post of mine they cope with capacitors in place.

The number of CVs available with these decoders is vast the variables available also.

But, how many do you want to use, personally CVs 1 to 6 is all I need.