Bachmann 47 Sound Functions

[loco]

HI.

Im considering one of the latest Bachmann 47. Ref; 31-659DS

Curious what the Function keys offer.

No luck searching on the Bachmann site.

 

Anybody have a list.

Thanks

 

 

[charliepetty]

They are all very similar in terms of what sounds they offer, expect 2 horn sounds, some kind of buffer clank, and flange squeal. Think more about whether the engine sounds are actually right and how drivable it is. I’ve not personally had one but I have spoken to people who aren’t happy with them. Someone said that the engine never notches up to full rev’s like it should so he was disappointed for that reason. You can’t always get Bachmann decoders reblown so you need to be sure that you are happy with the sounds on there before you buy it

All current Bachman sound decoders are the cheap Non Reblowable ESU Select Decoders, sadly your stuck with the sound unless you trade it in.  Charlie

[loco]

They are all very similar in terms of what sounds they offer, expect 2 horn sounds, some kind of buffer clank, and flange squeal. Think more about whether the engine sounds are actually right and how drivable it is. I’ve not personally had one but I have spoken to people who aren’t happy with them. Someone said that the engine never notches up to full rev’s like it should so he was disappointed for that reason. You can’t always get Bachmann decoders reblown so you need to be sure that you are happy with the sounds on there before you buy it

Thanks Richard.

 

 Very helpful, will help in making a decision.  In any case will certainly try before i buy.

Regards

[geoff]

All current Bachman sound decoders are the cheap Non Reblowable ESU Select Decoders, sadly your stuck with the sound unless you trade it in.  Charlie

 

This is not strictly correct but as far as I know no British sound files are offered by after market providers for the Loksound Select decoder. It is necessary to have a file written specifically for the Select to be able to load it. There many  files available for modellers of the American scene as Matt Herman, the Loksound head honcho in the States, has attempted to cover as many variations of loco sounds as possible and the files are available from the ESU website. There is a demonstration of this on Youtube. Also from the ESU web site there is this notice. 

 

Geoff

As a General Reference:

ANY LokSound Select Sound file can be written to ANY LokSound Select decoder. This means you can write a Micro(N Scale) 738xx file to an 8 pin or 21MTC Select, and alternately a 734xx(HO Scale) file to a Micro or Select Direct decoder. The ESU LokProgrammer software will recognize the difference and ask you to proceed. By Accepting you are giving the permission needed for the LokProgrammer to automatically make the conversion needed. However, these files cannot be altered for use with other ESU decoders. They are intended to be used with LokSound Select decoders only.

 

 

[charliepetty]

 

This is not strictly correct but as far as I know no British sound files are offered by after market providers for the Loksound Select decoder. It is necessary to have a file written specifically for the Select to be able to load it. There many  files available for modellers of the American scene as Matt Herman, the Loksound head honcho in the States, has attempted to cover as many variations of loco sounds as possible and the files are available from the ESU website. There is a demonstration of this on Youtube. Also from the ESU web site there is this notice. 

 

Geoff

As a General Reference:

ANY LokSound Select Sound file can be written to ANY LokSound Select decoder. This means you can write a Micro(N Scale) 738xx file to an 8 pin or 21MTC Select, and alternately a 734xx(HO Scale) file to a Micro or Select Direct decoder. The ESU LokProgrammer software will recognize the difference and ask you to proceed. By Accepting you are giving the permission needed for the LokProgrammer to automatically make the conversion needed. However, these files cannot be altered for use with other ESU decoders. They are intended to be used with LokSound Select decoders only.

 

 

 

I should have sail 'You cannot reblow them with any UK Sounds'  DC Kits to offer a Trade In against a V4 Decoder with UK Sounds.

[geoff]

I should have sail 'You cannot reblow them with any UK Sounds'  DC Kits to offer a Trade In against a V4 Decoder with UK Sounds.

I wonder why they are so popular in the States and yet it seems no-one has tested the water over here given the cost saving. Perhaps if they were available with British sounds there would be a price challenge against Hornby's offering, some of which seem to be gathering a small following.

 

Geoff

[charliepetty]

I wonder why they are so popular in the States and yet it seems no-one has tested the water over here given the cost saving. Perhaps if they were available with British sounds there would be a price challenge against Hornby's offering, some of which seem to be gathering a small following.

 

Geoff

They are a US Only product that is available in factory fitted models such as Bachmann, Rapido Trains & Realtrack.  To answer your question honestly 'ESU Stockists are not allowed to sell this product in Europe' But Bachmann sound locos with factory fitted 'Select; decoders are approx £100.00 above the price of Non Sound locos, Rapido only had the APTe but more recently Realtrack Models new Class 156 DMU's are fitted with 'Two' select decoders inside the model (One in each carriage) for £120.00 above the non sound model. That's £60.00 for each 'Select' decoder.

Edited April 9, 2018 by charliepetty

[geoff]

They are a US Only product that is available in factory fitted models such as Bachmann, Rapido Trains & Realtrack.  To answer your question honestly 'ESU Stockists are not allowed to sell this product in Europe' But Bachmann sound locos with factory fitted 'Select; decoders are approx £100.00 above the price of Non Sound locos, Rapido only had the APTe but more recently Realtrack Models new Class 156 DMU's are fitted with 'Two' select decoders inside the model (One in each carriage) for £120.00 above the non sound model. That's £60.00 for each 'Select' decoder.

 

Thank you Charlie, that clarifies the situation nicely.

Do you know whether it is possible to re-assign functions on the Bachmann and Rapido models using a Lokprogrammer or JMRI as we can on the standard V4 and, as I believe, on the US Select decoders?

I believe Matt Herman has stated that ESU do not sell any decoders with specially adapted functionality for OEM fitted versions, ie; they will perform just the same as any other Loksound with regard to function assignment.

 

Geoff

[charliepetty]

Thank you Charlie, that clarifies the situation nicely.

Do you know whether it is possible to re-assign functions on the Bachmann and Rapido models using a Lokprogrammer or JMRI as we can on the standard V4 and, as I believe, on the US Select decoders?

I believe Matt Herman has stated that ESU do not sell any decoders with specially adapted functionality for OEM fitted versions, ie; they will perform just the same as any other Loksound with regard to function assignment.

 

Geoff

That can be done, we find the LoK Programmer ideal for that.   Charlie

[DCB]

I think we will have to rethink the way we drive our locos to take full advantage of sound, many sound equipped locos sound OK in a shed yard environment but are hopeless when pulling trains. Clearly someone somewhere must have an app to allow you to drive your loco like a real driver with the sound responding to the regulator and the loco speed being derived from the sound, a class 47 diesel should open up to full bellow before it starts to creep slowly away from a stop with 10 coaches, it will need to throttle back as it accelerates  and gradually gain speed, the model usually creeps away on tickover and increases noise with speed.  Likewise steam locos should have a control app where lever reverse locos blast away from stationary, back off to notch up and continue to accelerate with a much reduced beat.  Equally with regulator shut a steam loco should coast with almost no noise and very little slowing. Many "Sound" equipped locos chuff to a halt unladen sounding like they are stalling on a steep gradient despite full regulator and full cut off or blast along when the real thing would just have a breath of steam.  Until we start deriving the speed from sound settings we wont progress.

If an app isn't available I will suggest my son develops one, he has a degree in applied computing so he might as well make use of it.

[Pete the Elaner]

I think we will have to rethink the way we drive our locos to take full advantage of sound, many sound equipped locos sound OK in a shed yard environment but are hopeless when pulling trains. Clearly someone somewhere must have an app to allow you to drive your loco like a real driver with the sound responding to the regulator and the loco speed being derived from the sound, a class 47 diesel should open up to full bellow before it starts to creep slowly away from a stop with 10 coaches, it will need to throttle back as it accelerates and gradually gain speed, the model usually creeps away on tickover and increases noise with speed. Likewise steam locos should have a control app where lever reverse locos blast away from stationary, back off to notch up and continue to accelerate with a much reduced beat. Equally with regulator shut a steam loco should coast with almost no noise and very little slowing. Many "Sound" equipped locos chuff to a halt unladen sounding like they are stalling on a steep gradient despite full regulator and full cut off or blast along when the real thing would just have a breath of steam. Until we start deriving the speed from sound settings we wont progress.

If an app isn't available I will suggest my son develops one, he has a degree in applied computing so he might as well make use of it.

DCC sound is still evolving. Legomanbiffo's newer diesel projects have drivelock where you can freeze the speed & use the throttle control to change the engine sounds.

I have recently tried a couple of Paul Chetter's 'Activedrive' Zimo projects for steam locos & like them a lot. With these, you can drop the speed by 1 step & the loco goes into coast mode for a few seconds. You can continue droppibg 1 step at a time for a while to produce a coasting effect. When you increase again, the loco re-starts chuffing.

 

This is a nice feature about decoders that can be re-blown, because you can get any new features like this.

 

I would rather avoid Loksound Select decoders altogether & buy what I want than fiddle around exchanging them.

[geoff]

That can be done, we find the LoK Programmer ideal for that.   Charlie

 

Thank you Charlie, that is what I expected.

 

Geoff

[wiggy1]

I think we will have to rethink the way we drive our locos to take full advantage of sound, many sound equipped locos sound OK in a shed yard environment but are hopeless when pulling trains. Clearly someone somewhere must have an app to allow you to drive your loco like a real driver with the sound responding to the regulator and the loco speed being derived from the sound, a class 47 diesel should open up to full bellow before it starts to creep slowly away from a stop with 10 coaches, it will need to throttle back as it accelerates  and gradually gain speed, the model usually creeps away on tickover and increases noise with speed.  Likewise steam locos should have a control app where lever reverse locos blast away from stationary, back off to notch up and continue to accelerate with a much reduced beat.  Equally with regulator shut a steam loco should coast with almost no noise and very little slowing. Many "Sound" equipped locos chuff to a halt unladen sounding like they are stalling on a steep gradient despite full regulator and full cut off or blast along when the real thing would just have a breath of steam.  Until we start deriving the speed from sound settings we wont progress.

If an app isn't available I will suggest my son develops one, he has a degree in applied computing so he might as well make use of it.

 

 

Hi David,

I think you must be listening to the wrong sound projects.

If you are out and about try and get to a show and listen to some of the projects available.

Legomanbiffo has 'drive lock' on his sounds so you can simulate a heavy load by slowly moving away then 'Drive lock' it and take the rev's up to full notch if you want then just keep toggling the 'Drive lock' as it gathers speed.

Same with DC Kits steam loco sounds, they have 'Heavy load' function which more or less does the same.

 

Wiggy.

[DCB]

Hi David,

I think you must be listening to the wrong sound projects.

If you are out and about try and get to a show and listen to some of the projects available.

Legomanbiffo has 'drive lock' on his sounds so you can simulate a heavy load by slowly moving away then 'Drive lock' it and take the rev's up to full notch if you want then just keep toggling the 'Drive lock' as it gathers speed.

Same with DC Kits steam loco sounds, they have 'Heavy load' function which more or less does the same.

 

Wiggy.

My point is those of us old enough to remember 47s in main line service remember the drama starts several seconds before the loco starts moving, revs rise to a ful 850 rpm, dirty smoke pours from the exhausts, the radiator shutters open and the loco creeps forward, the power then cuts as the loco accelerates very gently towards walking speed then the driver is able to apply power again and the acceleration quickens.   There is no "Sound" reason why the decoder sound can't do this but the driver concept is wrong. Instead of fiddling with parameters like a one armed paper hanger we shouod have a throttle linked to the sound from which the seed control derives its inputs, not the other way round.  I know DCC sellers have huge investment in controls but they should follow 3 rail and spring drive into the spares drawer of obscurity and oblivion. We need to drive the power unit not set a speed on a dial 1950s Hammant and Morgan style. Electronics have moved on.  We need an app not a control knob.

Seven Notches max,   And working radiator shutters and moving compensating beams on 1960s bogies. 

[wiggy1]

My point is those of us old enough to remember 47s in main line service remember the drama starts several seconds before the loco starts moving, revs rise to a ful 850 rpm, dirty smoke pours from the exhausts, the radiator shutters open and the loco creeps forward, the power then cuts as the loco accelerates very gently towards walking speed then the driver is able to apply power again and the acceleration quickens.   There is no "Sound" reason why the decoder sound can't do this but the driver concept is wrong. Instead of fiddling with parameters like a one armed paper hanger we shouod have a throttle linked to the sound from which the seed control derives its inputs, not the other way round.  I know DCC sellers have huge investment in controls but they should follow 3 rail and spring drive into the spares drawer of obscurity and oblivion. We need to drive the power unit not set a speed on a dial 1950s Hammant and Morgan style. Electronics have moved on.  We need an app not a control knob.

Seven Notches max,   And working radiator shutters and moving compensating beams on 1960s bogies. 

 

 

Ok, point taken.

BUT I still say you need to get out and listen to the sound projects out there.

I've listened to a lot of 'Legomanbiffo' sounds and in particular the class 47 or as it was in my days and maybe yours was the Brush 4 and it does just as you say it should.

You CAN drive it as it has several 'pulling away' features depending on how much you open the throttle, and on some projects like the class 37's they have wheel slip so if you open the throttle to much the wheel slip sound will play and the loco speed will not increase while its playing the slip feature..

Other sound providers are out there so best to get to a show where these guys are exhibiting and have a listen and talk to them.

BTW if you want to control your locos on an app that is available to.

 

Wiggy.

[charliepetty]

Ok, point taken.

BUT I still say you need to get out and listen to the sound projects out there.

I've listened to a lot of 'Legomanbiffo' sounds and in particular the class 47 or as it was in my days and maybe yours was the Brush 4 and it does just as you say it should.

You CAN drive it as it has several 'pulling away' features depending on how much you open the throttle, and on some projects like the class 37's they have wheel slip so if you open the throttle to much the wheel slip sound will play and the loco speed will not increase while its playing the slip feature..

Other sound providers are out there so best to get to a show where these guys are exhibiting and have a listen and talk to them.

BTW if you want to control your locos on an app that is available to.

 

Wiggy.

We visit many shows demonstrating the locomotives, where do you live!    Charlie

[cravensdmufan]

My point is those of us old enough to remember 47s in main line service remember the drama starts several seconds before the loco starts moving, revs rise to a ful 850 rpm, dirty smoke pours from the exhausts, the radiator shutters open and the loco creeps forward, the power then cuts as the loco accelerates very gently towards walking speed then the driver is able to apply power again and the acceleration quickens.   There is no "Sound" reason why the decoder sound can't do this but the driver concept is wrong. Instead of fiddling with parameters like a one armed paper hanger we shouod have a throttle linked to the sound from which the seed control derives its inputs, not the other way round.

Interesting comments.

 

I manage to recreate the revs build up before pulling away with the humble Hornby TTS £36 (ish) decoders by pressing F8 momentarily before increasing the speed steps.

 

In fact I have found the TTS decoders to be better * that some of the "full fat" £100+ offerings as far as manual control of sounds are concerned.  For example F5 increases to next higher revs, F6 decreases to next lower revs, and F7 spools sound down to idle.  All these can be actioned independently of the mototor speed.

 

 

The only other sound project that I purchased where you can manually change gears up and down while on the move is the excellent Wheeltappers Class 105 DMU - an essential sound feature on these first generation units.  See my separate topic on that. 

 

* Tin helmet now placed firmly on and head well down!

Edited August 27, 2018 by cravensdmufan

[Nick G]

LegomanBiffo class 47 sound. Now that sounds like a 47!

 

[cravensdmufan]

Yes they are very good. I have both of Bif's class 47 projects as well as my TTS.

 

Very quickly and completely OT, who makes the BR personnel carrier seen in the background of your video please? It looks very good.

[Nick G]

Yes they are very good. I have both of Bif's class 47 projects as well as my TTS.

 

Very quickly and completely OT, who makes the BR personnel carrier seen in the background of your video please? It looks very good.

 

 

 

The 47 is the latest recording on the Mid Norfolk Railway with Drivelock and playable brake on F5

 

The personnel carrier is made from resin parts from RTI. You have to buy the body, chassis and cab of your choice.

[tractor_37260]

 

 

The personnel carrier is made from resin parts from RTI. You have to buy the body, chassis and cab of your choice.

 

 

 

Yes they are very good. I have both of Bif's class 47 projects as well as my TTS.

 

Very quickly and completely OT, who makes the BR personnel carrier seen in the background of your video please? It looks very good.

 

Similar BR vehicles are available RTR from Base toys and Gilbow (Railway Collection)

[Nick G]

Similar BR vehicles are available RTR from Base toys and Gilbow (Railway Collection)

 

 

 

Older vehicles yes, nothing suitable for late 80's early 90's.

[class"66"]

Im now running Biffos latest 47 sound on Banks road,

im well pleased with it sounds awesome!!

[charliepetty]

Im now running Biffos latest 47 sound on Banks road,

im well pleased with it sounds awesome!!

We have 4 X Class 47 projects:

 

The 47/0 Non ETH & 47/4 ETH.  These are our older files, perfectly OK re Bachmann & Zimo.

 

Then our 47/4 Mid Norfolk (MNR) & 47/7 Scotrail projects. These are our latest superior projects, in our opinion the are very OK !!!!

 

To make things easier we have enabled one decoder to do both 47/4 & 47/7 but to stop confusion we have listed them seperatly on the Website. www.dclits-devideo.co.uk.

 

Charlie