wiring layout

[martinapsid]

hi all i needed some  help with wiring my layout all points are live frog electrofrog control is dcc no point motors i will be using some form of wire cntrol my knowledge is limited to power at toe end and insulated joiners at other any help would be appreciated thanks martin

[Harlequin]

Hi Martin,

 

I think this should do it:

[Click to enlarge]

 

You only strictly need insulating joiners on the inner two tracks leading out of a set of points, the ones electrically connected to the frog, but for sanity you can insulate the outer ones as well if you want.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Harlequin

[DCB]

You will probably need micro switches operated directly by the point tie bars to change frog polarity if you don't have Point motors. The little tags on the point blades don't seem to cope with DCC or in my case use outside in the garden.

 

Edit some pics of some rather scruffily wired polarity changing micro switches operated directly by point tie bars

 

Some of the switches are  " Ultra Mini Lever Actuator Microswitch SPDT Sub Miniature Micro Switch"  Ebay item ID 262123221511   Item price £1.99 for 5 from     

led-essential (213053)  (

100% positive   Feedback)

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Harlequin]

You will probably need micro switches operated directly by the point tie bars to change frog polarity if you don't have Point motors. The little tags on the point blades don't seem to cope with DCC or in my case use outside in the garden.

Hi David,

 

I don't see any "tags" on current electrofrog points - it's just the point blades touching the side rail that makes the electrical connection to the frog as far as I can see. That is a tiny contact patch and I can see why the high frequency DCC signal might cause more problems over time than DC.

 

But to keep things simple for Martin I'd suggest not worrying about separate switching of the frogs at this stage, just use the point blades as designed, bear in mind that microswitches might be needed in the future and make some allowance for them now.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Harlequin

[Free At Last]

DavidCBroad, on 11 May 2018 - 18:24, said:

You will probably need micro switches operated directly by the point tie bars to change frog polarity if you don't have Point motors. The little tags on the point blades don't seem to cope with DCC or in my case use outside in the garden.

Cue the man with the exhibition layout who never uses polarity switches or modifies his turnouts and never has any problems...

[Right Away]

Peco 00 Electrofrogs have a removable link wire underneath them which can be removed if you wish to feed the frog from a polarity change switch; this option ensures optimal conductivity to the point blades with no reliance on contact with the stock rail. As previously posted, insulated joiners must be used on the inner rails of the "vee" on all points.

I believe Peco now supply this information with their points.

 

I have used simple slide switches on occasion as a temporary "get around", mounted to the outside of the baseboard to change polarity. The toggle was drilled for the attachment of steel wire which passed through the baseboard frame, beneath the board proper, and right angled up to the point tie bar. The wire requires support beneath the board to prevent bending.

Ultimately, the wire in tube method could be used, but as the points in question have given flawless service for many years, "I ain't gonna fix 'em!"

Please see pics

[DCB]

Cue the man with the exhibition layout who never uses polarity switches or modifies his turnouts and never has any problems...

There are plenty of layouts both exhibition and home without polarity switches or modified turnouts which never have any problems but they are indoors.   I don't have any issues indoors but outside I just can't keep on top of cleaning the little tags which make contact on many Peco points.  This is similar to the contact problems some people seem to experience with DCC and my solution to persistent point blade contact issues was some super cheap Chinese micro switches, they have lasted 12 months so far so it is a workable work around if you run into problems.

See my edited #3 post above for pics and details

Edited May 13, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Free At Last]

When I came back into railway modelling the first new PECO turnouts I bought were the type with the links underneath. I did not know what they were for but after reading the instructions I thought the modification was a no-brainer. I even altered my older turnouts to the same standard, It only takes a few minutes and there have never been any downsides to it, I can never understand any argument for not doing it.

Using code 100 the only unreliable point work I had were the slips with their plastic frogs which I removed and inserted new pieces of rail to make them live.

 

[Phil S]

In DCC: A simple alternative to  a mechanical fog switch is to use a 'frog-juicer' - automatically changing the frog for you - Gaugemaster sell an economical version - avoids the need for mechancial alignemnt.  Of course, isolation beyond the V is still essential  [ - especially if any old style Hornby Steamroller wheels are expected to pass over if using Insulfrog ]

Wiring the switch rails to their adjacent stock rails avoids the need for them to switch with the point/frog, and means more reliable running.

 

A caution - which may be increasingly uneccessary - OLDER Peco points  - bought 2nd hand perhaps - may not have the present-day links etc, and require more interventionist cutting underneath??

[Crewlisle]

As I have stated on many forums on the subject of wiring up Peco Code 100 points,  THERE IS NO NEED TO DO ANYTHING.  By many on these forums who advocate polarity changing point  motors or switches I am considered to be a heretic & should be burnt at the stake!  Peco Code 100 elctrofrogs can be used straight out of the box even using DCC.

 

 1.  The point springs are strong enough for positive electrical contact providing the inner faces of the movable blades are kept clean.  The number of polarity failures I have had over the  last 30 years can be counted on one hand.  The only polarity switch on my layout is for the live diamond.

 

 2.  To prove it I have a total of 30 Code 100 points ranging from small radius Y points up to large radius curved points on my 'Crewlisle' DCC exhibition layout.   I only started having to renew them about 5 years ago as they had ‘worn out!

 

Peter

[shibushe]

As I have stated on many forums on the subject of wiring up Peco Code 100 points,  THERE IS NO NEED TO DO ANYTHING.  By many on these forums who advocate polarity changing point  motors or switches I am considered to be a heretic & should be burnt at the stake!  Peco Code 100 elctrofrogs can be used straight out of the box even using DCC.

 

 1.  The point springs are strong enough for positive electrical contact providing the inner faces of the movable blades are kept clean.  The number of polarity failures I have had over the  last 30 years can be counted on one hand.  The only polarity switch on my layout is for the live diamond.

 

 2.  To prove it I have a total of 30 Code 100 points ranging from small radius Y points up to large radius curved points on my 'Crewlisle' DCC exhibition layout.   I only started having to renew them about 5 years ago as they had ‘worn out!

 

Peter

Totally Agree. Having recently installed 4 Code 100 Large radius points on DCC. straight out of the box. On test my N7 runs through

At step 1 with no trouble.

However I did have trouble with another point, could not work it out why it was shorting.

Cured the problem by fitting a gauge master DDC80 polarity switch.

[Phil S]

Phil: Might one suggest that, whilst they do 'work straight out of the box', BECAUSE the left switch rail is connected to the Right hand stock rail (and right hand switch rail) when the point is set 'to the left'. and vice versa ... there is an unnecessary risk of the back face of a (left) wheel coming into contact with the 'unused' switch rail - with the full dcc current able to flow instantly across from the (left) rail via the paired-switch rails to the (right) rail: an instant short, and a dead stop - even though the point was 'correctly set' for the route.

 

Back to backs DO vary on models, and certain makes have some extreme examples - although 'standards' are better than they were.

It may be that for xx years only the same set of (no problem) stock has been run through those yy points - without problem, BUT

a single run on a model with a smaller back-to-back, OR more flexible wheelset (for tighter corners) DOES make the unwanted contact.

 

The 'point' being that the problem CAN BE AVOIDED - by linking each switch rail to its own stock rail, and negating its need to switch electrically ! ... leaving the electrical switching to the V frog - which can be done automatically with the Gaugemaster DCC80 - a solution which works even where no mechancal route change is made,but a phase change IS.

 

[Phase is a better term than 'polarity' when referring to DCC as it is an ac waveform  - But some consistent identification such as Rail A,and Rail B, or North and South  etc  is needed for wiring diagrams ...  I use brown and blue sleeves, but refer to Inner and Outer except where it is 'Reversed' on parts of an 'S' shape.]