Carriage of concrete sleepers in SPA wagons: how were they stacked?

[Grampus]

Evening all, 

 

perhaps a bit of a niche question, but here goes.  Prompted by some photos on Paul Bartlett's excellent site of Pike wagons (formerly SPAs) loaded with concrete sleepers, I decided to have a go at loading up my Cambrian SPA, so duly bought all the goodies from C&L yesterday at the DEMU 'bash'.  However, on going back to the pictures, what is not immediately clear to me is how the sleepers were stacked up?  In several of the pictures, the sleepers are clearly visible just above the top edge of the wagon side (or rather, the chairs/baseplates are).  From that I would guess that the sleepers are stacked at least two high, and perhaps three?  My question though is, how were they stacked?  If the sleepers are just piled up one on top of another, would the chairs on the ones at the bottom of the pile not get damaged? Or, is there something in between them - perhaps timber? - to stop such damage occurring?    If I am going to go to the trouble of sticking individual baseplates to sleepers, I must as well spend time doing the job properly!   Hopefully somebody out there will know: I would be most grateful for any advice, please.  Many thanks,

 

Paul

[Mark Saunders]

Based on what I have seen recently on other wagons they are loaded with a timber batten between the layers!

 

Mark Saunders

[Fat Controller]

Photos in BR's 'Green Book' (the section of the Rule Book that shows how to load different types of load safely) show a layer of sleepers with two lengths of what looks like 4" square batten, sitting where the rail would normally be. A second layer would then be placed on top. Concrete sleepers are pretty heavy, so two layers would be about the limit. 

[Trog]

When I was relaying, Pike wagons were loaded on site using forks fitted to the 360' excavators. The doors would be dropped on the side the machines were on and the sleepers loaded. The normal method was to load 3 sleepers on the far side of the wagon and push them square to the far door, load three sleepers onto the middle of the wagon and pull them back until they were lined up with the wagon floor edge on the dropped doors side. Then two sleepers were dropped into the gap left in the middle, to complete the layer. There would be four groups like this along the length of the wagon. As each group of eight was completed the technical staff would fetch lengths of 3" x 3" dunnage from where the gangs had left it stacked on the wagon buffer shanks when they dropped the doors. The dunnage would be placed onto the rail seats allowing the placing of a second layer of sleepers. Once all the sleepers had been loaded the track gang now refuelled with tea during a break while the sleepers were being loaded would come back out and close the wagon doors.

[West Junction]

The current Loading Standard for Bass & Pike wagons is basically the same except, Pike are limited to two tiers due to height of the doors, Bass three tiers.

 

Sleepers are loaded in 7's across the wagon with up to 3 stacks along the length. This enbles a sleeper auto baler to be used.

Timber, 75mm x 75mm is used between tiers of new sleepers and on a wagon with a flat floor, timber is used to enable a baler to unload and a fork lift to load.

 

Recovered sleepers may be loaded without timber between tiers, but must be loaded in an "order fashion" in a pyramid. IE each tier reduces by 1 sleeper. 

 

Stacks used to be loaded 8 across but were reduced to match the auto baler. If you look closely at Salmon sleeper loads you will see that they are in groups of 7.

The timber could also a troublesome with 8 across. If positioned incorrectly, when the doors were closed the timber could push on them forcing them out of gauge.

 

I expect stacks of four along the wagon, as used to be, could be authorised if necessary depending on the unloading method.

[Grampus]

Thank you everyone for all your help; very much appreciated. I can now proceed to cutting and sticking with confidence - pictures in due course.

 

Very best wishes,

 

Paul

[Lyddrail]

Paul,

See these 2 pics, the sleepers are point versions however.

Cheers.

[Wickham Green]

Paul,

See these 2 pics, the sleepers are point versions however.

L-439 TWY 21-10-92 ZAA DC 460313.jpg

L-444 TWY 21-10-92 ZAA DC 460324.jpg

Cheers.

'point versions' eh ? ............ used to be known as 'point timbers' when they were - er - made of timber !  ... but I think the term is 'bearer' nowadays. ( Those must've been for quite an early installation - presumably somewhere in the Garden of England.)

[Grampus]

Paul,

See these 2 pics, the sleepers are point versions however.

L-439 TWY 21-10-92 ZAA DC 460313.jpg

L-444 TWY 21-10-92 ZAA DC 460324.jpg

Cheers.

Brilliant - thanks Paul.  What smashing pictures - Lots of modelling potential there.  

 

Thanks again all.  I could not have asked for better.

 

Happy modelling and best wishes, 

 

Paul

[jim.snowdon]

'point versions' eh ? ............ used to be known as 'point timbers' when they were - er - made of timber !  ... but I think the term is 'bearer' nowadays. ( Those must've been for quite an early installation - presumably somewhere in the Garden of England.)

Those sleepers are unusual, but are not intended for pointwork - if you look closely, the rail fixings are all at the same spacing, rather than converging or diverging as is the case for pointwork. What I think they are intended for is a bridge where the track is required to be provided with guard rails, hence the four rail fixings per sleeper.

 

Jim

[West Junction]

Those sleepers are unusual, but are not intended for pointwork - if you look closely, the rail fixings are all at the same spacing, rather than converging or diverging as is the case for pointwork. What I think they are intended for is a bridge where the track is required to be provided with guard rails, hence the four rail fixings per sleeper.

 

Jim

They look like bearers for an S&C layout, too long for a standard sleeper. Some of the very long switches have a very gradual divergence. 

 

The first picture does show the change in position for the rail fixings.

[Lyddrail]

Those sleepers are unusual, but are not intended for pointwork - if you look closely, the rail fixings are all at the same spacing, rather than converging or diverging as is the case for pointwork. What I think they are intended for is a bridge where the track is required to be provided with guard rails, hence the four rail fixings per sleeper.

 

Jim

 

Jim,

I am no expert (I was with Electrification) see 2 more photos of same train.

Views are a bit clearer.

Cheers.

[The Bigbee Line]

Those sleepers are unusual, but are not intended for pointwork - if you look closely, the rail fixings are all at the same spacing, rather than converging or diverging as is the case for pointwork. What I think they are intended for is a bridge where the track is required to be provided with guard rails, hence the four rail fixings per sleeper.

 

Jim

Jim,

 

Here is a close up of Paul Wades picture:

 

 

Close observation shows that they do indeed have divergence in the rail fastenings, the lengths also vary in sets of 3 and the bearers are in fact numbered to assist when the pointwork is reassembled.

 

Thanks Paul Wade.

[jim.snowdon]

Turnout bearers they are, then. The additional pictures rather clinched it, and it does appear to be a very shallow angle example.

 

Jim

[Wickham Green]

Turnout bearers they are, then. The additional pictures rather clinched it, and it does appear to be a very shallow angle example.

 

Jim

So a high speed turnout heading for somewhere in Kent ............ maybe Ashford, Dollands Moor or Ebbsfleet ( where ? ) ?