WTT versus Conditional WTT.

[Richard Pike]

Good Afternoon,

 

Can anyone be kind enough to explain the difference between a WTT and a Conditional WTT ?.

 

Thanks

[Banger Blue]

Good Afternoon,

 

Can anyone be kind enough to explain the difference between a WTT and a Conditional WTT ?.

 

Thanks

There were two types of WTT - Mandatory & Conditional.

 

Mandatory WTT, as you would probably guess contained Trains that would definitely run. i.e your regular passenger service trains and freight guaranteed to run.

Conditional WTT contained the trains that may or may not run. i.e trains that run ‘as required’.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Banger Blue

[Rivercider]

From a Western Region Conditional WTT from 1976:-

 

Conditional Trains

 

This timetable contains trains which, because of their less regular nature, do not qualify for inclusion

in the Mandatory timetables. They have been designated 'Conditional' in order to indicate that they

may be subject to short notice cancellation on a day-by-day basis when insufficient traffic is

available for movement. In this event, a separate advice will be given.

 

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

There were two types of WTT - Mandatory & Conditional.

 

Mandatory WTT, as you would probably guess contained Trains that would definitely run. i.e your regular passenger service trains and freight guaranteed to run.

Conditional WTT contained the trains that may or may not run. i.e trains that run ‘as required’.

 

Trains which in the case of freights were supposed to definitely run.  The fact that many of them often did not run was one of the reasons (the other was organisational) why Mandatory and Conditional WTTs disappeared from the scene and were superseded by separate Passenger and Freight WTTs.

[The Johnster]

Trains that were cancelled for various reasons at short notice were said to be 'Caped' during my time on the railway in the '70s; does anyone know the origin of this term, which could not be explained to me at the time and which I would like to know, because I don't get out much and worry about this sort of thing...

[Banger Blue]

Trains that were cancelled for various reasons at short notice were said to be 'Caped' during my time on the railway in the '70s; does anyone know the origin of this term, which could not be explained to me at the time and which I would like to know, because I don't get out much and worry about this sort of thing...

CAPE

 

one explanation I have heard is: Cancelled At Point of Entry.

 

Originally a telegraphic code word.

 

Another example is PINE which means: Train terminated short of destination.

 

http://www.railwaycodes.org.uk/misc/telegraph.shtm

Edited September 17, 2018 by Banger Blue

[Caledonian]

Trains that were cancelled for various reasons at short notice were said to be 'Caped' during my time on the railway in the '70s; does anyone know the origin of this term, which could not be explained to me at the time and which I would like to know, because I don't get out much and worry about this sort of thing...

 

I'll go with what Dougie said - and the term is still in use

[The Stationmaster]

Various explanations have appeared over the years for 'Cape' and I really don't know if any of them are correct as large numbers of the telegraphic codewords definitely make neither acronyms or any sense when related to their meaning.  I suspect the words originally developed in a way that avoided potential confusions with other codewords when spoken or sent by telegraph. (And don't forget that short words were often essential as they were sent by single needle or other coded type telegraph instruments rather than by printed telegram or Notice.)

[St Enodoc]

Various explanations have appeared over the years for 'Cape' and I really don't know if any of them are correct as large numbers of the telegraphic codewords definitely make neither acronyms or any sense when related to their meaning.  I suspect the words originally developed in a way that avoided potential confusions with other codewords when spoken or sent by telegraph. (And don't forget that short words were often essential as they were sent by single needle or other coded type telegraph instruments rather than by printed telegram or Notice.)

I've never worked out why so many were names of rivers, trees or birds.

[jonny777]

Trains which in the case of freights were supposed to definitely run.  The fact that many of them often did not run was one of the reasons (the other was organisational) why Mandatory and Conditional WTTs disappeared from the scene and were superseded by separate Passenger and Freight WTTs.

 

 

 

Mandatory and Conditional WTTs were also preceded by Passenger and Freight versions - at least until the end of the 1960s. 

 

I'm not sure whose 'genius' idea it was to change in the first place. 

[Richard Pike]

Thanks Guy's, clear explanation.

[The Stationmaster]

I've never worked out why so many were names of rivers, trees or birds.

 

Or a desert

[The Stationmaster]

Mandatory and Conditional WTTs were also preceded by Passenger and Freight versions - at least until the end of the 1960s. 

 

I'm not sure whose 'genius' idea it was to change in the first place. 

I think it was an idea originating from resource planning in that Mandatory freights were just like passenger etc trains and had diagrammed locos and crews.  The reality was that because of the actual traffic situation there was a mountain of time and paper spent producing Supplementary diagrams to deal with resources thrown up by weekly notice cancellation of freight trains so the idea was found to produce a lot more problems than it solved.

 

the strange thing of course was that a percentage of freights were always the most consistently run trains of all on the network and some of them had run in the same paths for many years which was more than could be said of many passenger trains.  When I totally reorganised WR freight timetabling in the early 1990s we had c.800 paths in our WTT (which excluded local trips and some other short distance services) and they all had diagrammed loco and crew resources.  But at the same time I had a bit over 400 paths in our MAP book (Manual of Agreed Pathways) which had no allocated resources but could quickly be activated from a timetabling viewpoint as the paths existed albeit sometimes only in a fairly basic form.

 

I suspect that in reality, although there had been declines in various traffics and hence the total number of trains, the proportions hadn't been much different in the days of Mandatory and Conditional freight WTTs with a lot of what had then been shown as Conditional would, if the trains still ran, have been reduced to MAP in my time while even some of the Mandatory trains would also have been MAP in my time as they ran so rarely compared with what was booked in the WTT.  Under my system we reviewed our trains as being either WTT or MAP every 8 weeks which fitted the the Driver roster cycles and hence traincrew diagrams and enabled the level special traffic work on the planning desks to be kept under firm control.  That of course fitted what had by then become the periodicity for WTT supplements but I did away those completely (which saved on external printer's costs) and reissued the WTTs instead (which were printed in house) but as their format had been completely revised time was also saved at local level because we had redesigned, in consultation with Signalmen, the way our WTTs were formatted to allow them to be used as signalbox (timetable) simplifiers instead of the old system of Signalmen having to create their own from WTT and supplement information.

 

Quite a long way from expensively printed, and proof checked, WTTs and Supplements but nothing like as good looking alas.

[Dunsignalling]

Mandatory and Conditional WTTs were also preceded by Passenger and Freight versions - at least until the end of the 1960s. 

 

I'm not sure whose 'genius' idea it was to change in the first place. 

GENIUS is something else altogether, nowadays.

[St Enodoc]

Or a desert

I think that's one of the easier ones to remember - GOBI - "go by".

Edited September 20, 2018 by St Enodoc