Help with Near Slough

[OhOh]

Thanks, but how do I find the Guide Dog Bridge thread?

Use the search box at top right of this page, but toggle it to search in "Forum Index".

 

Or, just click this: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113109-guide-dog-bridge/?hl=%2Bguide+%2Bdog+%2Bbridge

Edited November 13, 2018 by OhOh

[Ian Smeeton]

Might be a silly question, but have you considered N?

 

Regards

 

Ian

[mdvle]

Thanks, but how do I find the Guide Dog Bridge thread?

 

Note in that plan just how much space the curves take.

 

My opinion, the 2 biggest problems in layout design are curves and switches because both, even though heavily compressed for the real thing, still require significant real estate that creates limits on what can be achieved.

 

In the case of Guide Dog Bridge note that the curves have taken up almost 7' of the available 10' longest length, leaving only 3 to 4' left for the focal point of the layout.

 

I was confused by the thread on "a nod to Brent" where there appeared to be no scale plan prior to the build?

You all keep telling me I must draw the room to the last millimetre before I do anything, followed by exact scale of every piece of track otherwise I will have a disaster??

 

The point was to show you a layout that is in a room about the size of what you have, that offers mainline (albeit 2 track in Devon) service that would allow you to run a fair number of passenger trains.  The Kingsbridge branch allows a DMU should you want something moving in and out, but also offers the chance of a 1 or 2 coach steam train with the necessary changing of ends movement.

 

As for the no scale plan, it can be done just not in your circumstances.  The build it as you go approach can work but it relies on the ability/acceptance of modifying the baseboards as you go to reflect what track actually fits (or alternately taking it all apart and starting over).  This won't work in your case given you have stated that you will be buying baseboards custom made.

 

 

Also having looked again at Upton Hanbury I just don't think a 33ft layout can be cut down to 12ft!!

As I said, certain things would need to be omitted, and other things chopped to a smaller size.

 

But I wasn't really suggesting that.

 

My point in suggesting it was that it is a good design to look at specific elements given that Harlequin provides layouts with a nice scale grid to examine things.

 

Specifically just look at how much space the curves take, how much space switches take, the amount of space to build a sequence of switches for a fiddle yard, etc.

 

So I will continue and will try a version of my Near Slough, (perhaps Nearly Slough?) where the relief lines meet the main lines off scene, the descent/ascent to lower level is at the rear and starts earlier, with some sidings for the local trains in front. Thus the only 4 track will be through the station.

Remember the most important thing - regardless of any advice given at the end of the day it is your layout.

 

Only you know what compromises are acceptable and what choices are the proverbial bridge to far.

 

 

Then I will measure the incline lengths,calculate the slopes and see what is needed to change.

 

It will be a while before you see this as I will be doing this to exact scale with 3ft minimum curves in the visible area, and 30ins elsewhere except in sidings that will not see bogie stock. (the room has already been measured accurately over a year ago!)

I hope you share with us what you end up with.

[The Stationmaster]

 

Note in that plan just how much space the curves take.

 

My opinion, the 2 biggest problems in layout design are curves and switches because both, even though heavily compressed for the real thing, still require significant real estate that creates limits on what can be achieved.

 

In the case of Guide Dog Bridge note that the curves have taken up almost 7' of the available 10' longest length, leaving only 3 to 4' left for the focal point of the layout.

 

 

The point was to show you a layout that is in a room about the size of what you have, that offers mainline (albeit 2 track in Devon) service that would allow you to run a fair number of passenger trains.  The Kingsbridge branch allows a DMU should you want something moving in and out, but also offers the chance of a 1 or 2 coach steam train with the necessary changing of ends movement.

 

As for the no scale plan, it can be done just not in your circumstances.  The build it as you go approach can work but it relies on the ability/acceptance of modifying the baseboards as you go to reflect what track actually fits (or alternately taking it all apart and starting over).  This won't work in your case given you have stated that you will be buying baseboards custom made.

 

 

My point in suggesting it was that it is a good design to look at specific elements given that Harlequin provides layouts with a nice scale grid to examine things.

 

Specifically just look at how much space the curves take, how much space switches take, the amount of space to build a sequence of switches for a fiddle yard, etc.

 

Remember the most important thing - regardless of any advice given at the end of the day it is your layout.

 

Only you know what compromises are acceptable and what choices are the proverbial bridge to far.

 

 

Several very important points in there -

1. Very definitely your layout so the key is to try to do what you want, but

2. Crucially when planning any roundy style layout it is key to keep in your mind at all times the amount of space which will be taken by the curves at each end, and

3. To always understand that those curves will be an area where you will probably have to compromise between appearance, operability, and making them fit the space you have available.

 

Simplistic tho' this might sound it is probably a good idea to start with an understanding of the radius of your curves at each end and then calculate how much space that will leave you in the middle for your main area of interest.  And don't forget that whatever radius you choose the one for your innermost curve will be less than that for your outermost curve and it is the radius of your outermost curve which will decide how much space the curves will take up along your 12 foot side of the room (and the 8 foot side as well of course).  The more tracks you add in any curved area the greater the range of radii of those curves, thus a double track with the innermost curve on 2nd radius takes up far less linear space than a quadruple, or more, track using the same radius for the innermost curve.

 

https://jonscaife.com/model-rail/track-geometries-for-00-gauge-Hornby-setrack/

 

https://www.modelrailroadacademy.com/video/layout-plans-designing-curved-track-sections-010595/

Edited November 14, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Harlequin]

Does this help?

 

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully, you can pick out the red (min 36in), blue (min 30in) and green (min 468mm) curves amongst the overlapping lines.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Harlequin

[Joseph_Pestell]

Does this help?

 

TallPaul1.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully, you can pick out the red (min 36in), blue (min 30in) and green (min 468mm) curves amongst the overlapping lines.

 

That's rather clever (but reminds me of Spirograph which I hated).

 

It makes the point well that with 36" min radius curves, the OP can only just get the layout in his 8' width - and that's not taking into account extra width for platforms etc.

 

Allowing that he is willing to go to a lower radius on the part of the layout hidden by scenery (right hand side), there is still only going to be about 42" to represent the platforms.

 

And I certainly don't see where we find the space to get the lines to descend to hidden sidings below.

[The Stationmaster]

Does this help?

 

TallPaul1.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully, you can pick out the red (min 36in), blue (min 30in) and green (min 468mm) curves amongst the overlapping lines.

 

Excellent idea Phil.  The real impact comes when you go down to minimum usable radius, i.e. 2nd radius, on the inner track as even that will only allow a bit over 4 feet of straight on the long wall.   And if there are sidings etc which create extra tracks on the curve - as per the most recent sketched layout proposal - it becomes even worse.   There would also be a lot of pointwork on curves which doesn't make for reliable running.  And 2nd radius is the one most commonly used as the minimum radius for larger loco design in 4mm scale using 00 track.

 

I think if the OP is set on a quadruple track layout he would really be better advised to drop down to N gauge or instead look for a suitable double track prototype if he intends to still go for 00.

[TonyMay]

And we haven't really talked too much about organising the fiddle yard.  Don't overlook FY design.  It's more important than the on-scene track as it defines what you can do with the on-scene track. With 2 tracks, you can have one upside and one downside.  With four tracks, it depends on whether the tracks are up-up-down-down or up-down-up-down.  UUDD is slightly easier to organise but UDUD is a bit tricky.  With 4 tracks you're immediately halving the FY: track ratio, I expect only about 2 FY roads per line will be possible.  Quad track is best suited to spacious club layouts. 

[Tallpaul69]

Thanks to everyone for their input

 

Trying to answer some of the points:-

 

1) N Gauge:-a)I have too much invested in 00 to make the swap! b) I find it too fiddly for my fingers and now I am 70 I have to think that this aspect will get worse not better!

2) 2 track against 4 track:- if its 4 track at all it has to be UDUD as there is little UUDD on the GW main line in the Reading -Slough area.

Am currently looking at a two track version of Maidenhead modelling just the yard and branch junction.

3) minimal handling of stock and locos required so I do need more that 4 loops and longer that 1 train length each although I am cutting the length of all but the crack expresses and will run a day as 3 8 hour sessions probably in 1/2 time. So looking for 12 trains to be held mainly 10 wagons or max three coaches with just 4 trains of my original length.

 

I will reply further on Sunday

Best regards

Paul

[Tallpaul69]

I thought I would give an update on my planning of Nearly Maidenhead.

 

It seems a good possibility as it is fairly easy and still allows a lot of operation to take out the up and down mains and just use the reliefs. Luckily the reliefs have a loop on both directions so slower trains can be overtaken by fast ones. The outside track will be the down line and the inside track the up.

 

The track on the layout will be on a single level.

 

The Iver pilot operation at Slough can be replaced by the Loudwater Goods.

The High Wycombe branch will be a "short cut" from the scenic main line to the fiddle yard and will have its own small fiddle yard which will also connect round to the bay(branch) platform..  

 

Currently debating which trains to use as the 12 each way I expect to fit in the fiddle yard. Some of these will be changed depending on which 8 hour period I am running.

So for instance for 1962 during the 05.00 to 13.00 weekday period  I tend to think these:-

 

Down ( not in order of running but of importance):-

 

1) Blue Pullman

2) A named Express eg Bristolian

3) Chocolate & cream coached express. This will run round at approx. 2 scale hourly intervals

4) Maroon coached express. This will run round at approx. 2 scale hourly intervals

5) Down vac, vans

6) Down vac mixed.

7) Down Oxford /Didcot/ Newbury corridor steam 

8) Down local (Steam)

9) Down local (DMU)

10) Class 9 long distance freight

11) Local freight

12) Down tankers

 

All except 1) and 2) will make several circuits during the timetable

I will need to fit in several tank locos coming out/ returning to Slough LE to be shunters or pick up/after dropping off trains and hope also to fit in a tired looking loco on its way to Swindon for repair or scrapping (the up version will be a different loco in gleaming condition after overhaul or a brand new diesel coming into service!

 

Up:-

As down but :-

1) Pullman cars steam or Diesel hauled. 

12) I might replace the up tanks by an up milk train!

 

All will need to be held three trains per track in the fiddle yard  although the expresses will only be two per track. This means I need 5 tracks in each direction in the fiddle yard.

 

I will update you further when I have drawn this out.

 

Best regards

Paul