Fuel deliveries to TMD fuel points 80s/90s

[DomDulley]

After some head-scratching I've come up with the following plan to suit the available space. 

 

Tank wagons will be delivered via the headshunt to the siding below the discharge siding, where they will be marshaled by the yard pilot.

 

I'll also try to add some stores, a lube tank and hopefully a small water treatment plant, maybe utilising an old water tower dating back to when the turntable was used by steam locos. Also a portakbin as an office.

 

I may not use one of the fuel points (FP1).

 

I envisage locos coming on shed to fuel at FP2, then either entering the shed for work or heading to the turntable to be stabled.

 

The long siding at the top could be used as a carriage siding or as overflow for locos that won't fit in the roundhouse behind the turntable.

 

[Davexoc]

Looking at that plan, I would use the short turntable road as the entry via a double slip on the first shed road, changing the second shed road to a three way point for access to the headshunt for the fuel tank. That will allow movement from the fuel roads or shed direct to the turntable and vice versa.

If you then use a three way point at the headshunt and link that to an extra point for FP2, you have a run round loop for your tank movements. Just ideas....

 

Dave

Edited November 30, 2018 by Davexoc

[DomDulley]

Looking at that plan, I would use the short turntable road as the entry via a double slip on the first shed road, changing the second shed road to a three way point for access to the headshunt for the fuel tank. That will allow movement from the fuel roads or shed direct to the turntable and vice versa.

If you then use a three way point at the headshunt and link that to an extra point for FP2, you have a run round loop for your tank movements. Just ideas....

 

Dave

 

Good suggestions, Dave.

 

I actually have a couple of three way points in the yard at the moment and I want to move away from them, as I'm finding them a right pain to operate from a control panel.

 

I'm also loath to use a double slip (as much as I would love to), as Peco don't do an electrofrog version in code 100 so I think I will be asking for trouble

 

Your ideas are excellent though, so I'll see if I can achieve something similar with standard points.

 

Cheers!

[lyneux]

Nice shot here of a rake of TTAs on Greenford loop (ex Old Oak Common if the caption is to be believed).

 

http://www.petertandy.co.uk/westealing/31125(2)_ooc_tanks_301189.jpg

 

Guy

[Ken.W]

As your space is limited, you could do without the tank storage siding.

Gateshead Depot had a short fuel discharge siding which would hold three, maybe four, TTA tanks  and had pipes to allow discharge of all of them. Note, the discharge siding would be laid on a concrete apron. Few of the largest, if any, depots in BR days would be capable of handling bogie tanks.

 

The full tanks would be tripped in by the pilot (an 03) from the nearby Tyneside Central Freight Depot at Park Lane (a brake van wasn't used). The tanks would then be shunted, swapping the empties on the fuel road for the fulls being delivered. I believe normally one of the depot pilots would assist in this rather than the TCFD pilot running round. The TCFD pilot would then return there taking the empties away with it. tanks weren't stored elsewhere on the depot.

 

On a small depot stores would be fairly limited, any repair work being done at a main depot. It would still need all the consumables though, as well as fuel, lub oil, anti-freeze, sand (in bags), brake blocks etc.

 

A couple of common mistakes I tend to see on depot layouts; the storage tanks not being large enough, they should be able to hold all the fuel being delivered. Also, as you've correctly said already, locos should normally go onto the fuel point on arrival on depot, not prior to departure.

 

I've a photo somewhere of the fuel tanks and discharge siding at Heaton, which were worked in a similar manner, which I'll try to find and post.

[Ian Smeeton]

I don't think I have posted this on this particular thread.

 

 

Corkerhill, 1980 ish.

 

Why the 350 was in front of the 20 on the tanks, I have no idea. Perhaps a little vehicle misidentification by the Jocko driver

 

Any use?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

[DomDulley]

As your space is limited, you could do without the tank storage siding.

Gateshead Depot had a short fuel discharge siding which would hold three, maybe four, TTA tanks  and had pipes to allow discharge of all of them. Note, the discharge siding would be laid on a concrete apron. Few of the largest, if any, depots in BR days would be capable of handling bogie tanks.

 

The full tanks would be tripped in by the pilot (an 03) from the nearby Tyneside Central Freight Depot at Park Lane (a brake van wasn't used). The tanks would then be shunted, swapping the empties on the fuel road for the fulls being delivered. I believe normally one of the depot pilots would assist in this rather than the TCFD pilot running round. The TCFD pilot would then return there taking the empties away with it. tanks weren't stored elsewhere on the depot.

 

On a small depot stores would be fairly limited, any repair work being done at a main depot. It would still need all the consumables though, as well as fuel, lub oil, anti-freeze, sand (in bags), brake blocks etc.

 

A couple of common mistakes I tend to see on depot layouts; the storage tanks not being large enough, they should be able to hold all the fuel being delivered. Also, as you've correctly said already, locos should normally go onto the fuel point on arrival on depot, not prior to departure.

 

I've a photo somewhere of the fuel tanks and discharge siding at Heaton, which were worked in a similar manner, which I'll try to find and post.

 

Being on a steep learning curve re operational matters, I'm interesting in how the shunting was carried out on a single fuel road - or is the fuel road different to the fuel siding?

 

I've found this part of the Gateshead Depot plan - not sure if it's correct but it looks to me like there is a short siding leading to the tanks (marked 'buffer stop'). If this is right and the empties were kept in the siding and then just shunted out to allow full TTAs to come into the siding, where would the empties be shunted to before being taken away? I assume they wouldn't just be left blocking access to anything, or did that happen for short periods?

 

 

 

Agree about the size of the tank.

[DomDulley]

I don't think I have posted this on this particular thread.

 

2010_0901Workshop0024.JPG

 

Corkerhill, 1980 ish.

 

Why the 350 was in front of the 20 on the tanks, I have no idea. Perhaps a little vehicle misidentification by the Jocko driver

 

Any use?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

Great shot

[iands]

I don't think I have posted this on this particular thread.

 

2010_0901Workshop0024.JPG

 

Corkerhill, 1980 ish.

 

Why the 350 was in front of the 20 on the tanks, I have no idea. Perhaps a little vehicle misidentification by the Jocko driver

 

Any use?

 

Regards

 

Ian

 

Apologies for going off topic, but it is sort of related, Just noticed the smaller tank next to the '350'. Anyone know how the Antifreeze was delivered, by rail or road?

 

TIA.

[jonny777]

I'm not sure if this is useful to anyone.

 

 

I took it through the wire fencing and associated hedge at Grangemouth in April 1992

 

 

[SED Freightman]

Apologies for going off topic, but it is sort of related, Just noticed the smaller tank next to the '350'. Anyone know how the Antifreeze was delivered, by rail or road?

 

TIA.

 

Just a guess but judging by the size of the Antifreeze tank, deliveries to Corkerhill would probably have been made by road.  In the early to mid 1980's at Ramsgate Depot the de-icing fluid arrived by rail in a two axle tank car from Kilfrost Ltd at Haltwhistle. I think the tank cars used were only vac braked (or possibly only vac piped) and with the gradual run down of VB services there would often be a bit of a panic during cold spells to try and expedite the wagon on its meaderings up and down the country before supplies ran out and the de-icing trains were unable to operate.

[Davexoc]

Apologies for going off topic, but it is sort of related, Just noticed the smaller tank next to the '350'. Anyone know how the Antifreeze was delivered, by rail or road?

 

TIA.

Post 1987 it was probably by road on Swift Haulage, that was when they were contracted to deliver BR Enparts. I remember off loading a curtain sider of 45 gallon drums of anti-freeze as I could drive the FLT. They were not on pallets and no grabbing attachments back then, so forks set slightly narrow and go between the ribs, which would be taken a dim view of these days....

 

It was all for the shunters as mainline locos didn't use it, which also included some of the Ford, BL and Vauxhall derivatives too....

 

Dave

[Ken.W]

Being on a steep learning curve re operational matters, I'm interesting in how the shunting was carried out on a single fuel road - or is the fuel road different to the fuel siding?

 

I've found this part of the Gateshead Depot plan - not sure if it's correct but it looks to me like there is a short siding leading to the tanks (marked 'buffer stop'). If this is right and the empties were kept in the siding and then just shunted out to allow full TTAs to come into the siding, where would the empties be shunted to before being taken away? I assume they wouldn't just be left blocking access to anything, or did that happen for short periods?

 

Gateshead Depot.png

 

 

Agree about the size of the tank.

Sorry if it confused you but I seem to have used the terms 'fuel discharge siding' and 'fuel line' to describe the same siding, and yes it was that short siding marked 'buffer stop'.

That diagram looks quite acurate to me.

Procedure would be the TCFD pilot arriving with the fulls, the shunting being done, and the pilot departing back to TCFD with the empties all in one operation.

From what I recall (it was a while ago) a Depot pilot would normally assist in the shunting, releasing the TCFD pilot or placing some of the tanks. Also, as can be seen on the diagram the lines either side of the storage tanks formed loops.

 

The lines onto / off the depot from the TCFD direction are the pair from top right leading into the depot just below the tanks.

 

The two lines along the bottom are the running lines, the only one's still there.

 

The 'Daily Shed', the small shed shown bottom centre was the main fuel point. Locos arrived onto the depot on the line leading into it from the left.

Outside, below, the Daily Shed was the 'Independent', the concrete fuel apron of which can still be seen. the crossover from this to the running lines was operated by a ground frame.

There were also fuel points, little used, on the apron in front of the Main Shed. Only locos requiring maintenence or major exams went in there, and they had to be shunted in or out with a pilot.

 

Exiting the Daily Shed the lines converging top right ended in a buffer stop. You then reversed direction through the wash or by-pass.

The one mistake I spotted here, the washer road should directly access the top one of the pair bottom left, this lead to the main stabling sidings and west end of the shed, a corner of which is shown. The bottom left line turning off this was the main exit route, towards the King Edward Bridge. Also, there wasn't the connection between this pair of lines and the lines of the Main Shed (or it may have been put in very late on). All the other 9 lines off to the left were into the Main Shed.

 

The 3 lines off the top were the 'DOME' sidings (buffer ended)

[Fat Controller]

Just a guess but judging by the size of the Antifreeze tank, deliveries to Corkerhill would probably have been made by road.  In the early to mid 1980's at Ramsgate Depot the de-icing fluid arrived by rail in a two axle tank car from Kilfrost Ltd at Haltwhistle. I think the tank cars used were only vac braked (or possibly only vac piped) and with the gradual run down of VB services there would often be a bit of a panic during cold spells to try and expedite the wagon on its meaderings up and down the country before supplies ran out and the de-icing trains were unable to operate.

IIRC, the original Kilfrost tanks were air/vac piped, but unfitted; there were only a couple of them, which must have made topping-up supplies fairly fraught if winter started earlier, or lasted longer. I always thought it was an odd place to have such a plant, being vulnerable to bad weather, but apparently Haltwhistle is close some interpretations of the centre of the UK.                    

[hmrspaul]

IIRC, the original Kilfrost tanks were air/vac piped, but unfitted; there were only a couple of them, which must have made topping-up supplies fairly fraught if winter started earlier, or lasted longer. I always thought it was an odd place to have such a plant, being vulnerable to bad weather, but apparently Haltwhistle is close some interpretations of the centre of the UK.                    

They were non power-braked, with through vacuum and airpipe - both ex built for BR ferry tanks https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/kilfrost

 

Nothing to do with this topic! Electric deicer.

 

Paul

Edited December 15, 2018 by hmrspaul

[Davexoc]

IIRC, the original Kilfrost tanks were air/vac piped, but unfitted; there were only a couple of them, which must have made topping-up supplies fairly fraught if winter started earlier, or lasted longer. I always thought it was an odd place to have such a plant, being vulnerable to bad weather, but apparently Haltwhistle is close some interpretations of the centre of the UK.                    

OT - Just looked them up and they are still there, on the south side of what was the Alston branch. If they were involved with the MOD then RAF Spade Adam is just up the road, but that was being used for explosives and armour testing when I used to visit the area. You always knew when something was going on because if you rang the hotel (The Centre of Britain) they would advise you to look much further afield. Geographically it is the centre of the UK when you take into account all outlying islands.

 

Dave