Very basic help

[Imustbemadatmyage]

As a total newcomer to the idea of railway modelling, I have been avidly reading articles on layout design and find a lot of the terminology rather confusing. What, for example, is a "trailing point"? Is there a resource that I can access to find out what I can and can't do when designing my layout?

I have seen lots of suggested layouts criticised for what appear to me to be quite esoteric reasons. How do I find out how to do it correctly?

I am wanting to plan my first layout in N gauge on a 1200 x 750 baseboard (the largest that the domestic manager will allow!)

[Ray H]

Could you join a local club where you live? I'm sure they would be able to guide you through the various stages and you would be free to ask for clarification of things you don't understand or know the reason for their existence.

 

Failing that you could draw up your plan and post it on here and ask for comments. However, that suggestion comes with a warning. You'll get several (or more) suggestions as to the changes you should/could make. That said, those suggested changes should be accompanied by a reason for or indicating the bonus you can gain by making the suggested change.

 

You'll probably find answers to many of your questions through Google/Wikipedia - other search engines are available. Searches via that route are probably worth including the word "railway" in the criteria. Try it with "Railway facing point".

[Joseph_Pestell]

As a total newcomer to the idea of railway modelling, I have been avidly reading articles on layout design and find a lot of the terminology rather confusing. What, for example, is a "trailing point"? Is there a resource that I can access to find out what I can and can't do when designing my layout?

I have seen lots of suggested layouts criticised for what appear to me to be quite esoteric reasons. How do I find out how to do it correctly?

I am wanting to plan my first layout in N gauge on a 1200 x 750 baseboard (the largest that the domestic manager will allow!)

 

You might find it easier to get the domestic manager to agree to something narrower than the 750mm in favour of longer. That generally works better for model railways.

[Harlequin]

Imagine that a set of points are a capital letter Y: Trailing points are set into tracks where trains normally travel down the page. Trains enter one of the two arms of the Y and exit through the tail. Facing points are set into tracks where trains normally travel up the page, and could take one of two routes, exiting through either of the arms.

 

That's the danger with facing points - trains could take the wrong route by accident. Not possible with trailing points.

[Philou]

Hello Imustbemadatmyage,

 

I agree with Ray H, put your ideas up here and you'll get help. The chaps on here certainly helped me with my layout ideas.

 

Phil has put it very well - it was 'normal' practice (though there are always exceptions) that trains accessing a yard or siding would have to go past the point and then reverse. Branch lines leading off a main-line is another matter altogether.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip 

[imt]

Hi, and welcome to the hobby.

 

Let Google be your friend - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facing_and_trailing. Remember we drive on the left - including on the railway, and signals are usually on the left of the line.

 

These pages might help a bit - http://www.railway-technical.com/

 

AND never be afraid of asking questions - the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.  Everybody is friendly here and will help as much as they can.

 

Finally, I would agree that 18" (in real money) is a bit narrow for "N" try to trade width for length - but don't go too wide because of reach problems unless you can get all the way round your model. 

[Imustbemadatmyage]

You might find it easier to get the domestic manager to agree to something narrower than the 750mm in favour of longer. That generally works better for model railways.

I wondered about that but I want a layout on a loop and the 750 width gives me the ability to have curves that won't derail anything! I dont really want an end to end layout and to have to work out how to turn the engine round at the ends. Surely a fiddle yard at each end would give me less room for a scenic straight in the middle than having the track simply disappear round a curve? All of the middle of the board would also be free for further ridings, buildings etc.

[Imustbemadatmyage]

Hi, and welcome to the hobby.

 

.....

Finally, I would agree that 18" (in real money) is a bit narrow for "N" try to trade width for length - but don't go too wide because of reach problems unless you can get all the way round your model.

 

My board is 29.5 inches in real money. I can reach front to back easily enough. My basic thoughts are as the reply to Joseph_Petrell

[Harlequin]

Your proposed size is perfectly workable and there are many good layouts that use this sort of size, or even smaller.

 

But it is a bit tight. For instance, if you fit a simple oval onto the board, the straight sections will be only ~450mm-600mm long. (You can, of course, have a much more creative track shape than an oval but it's a useful way to think about things.)

 

This is most likely why Joseph is suggesting negotiating more length with the powers that be, if possible. Maybe 1440*720 or 1500*750?

 

If you can access the layout on all sides, then a roundy-round design with fiddle yard at the back would work. Or a U shape end to end with fiddle yard at the back.

 

If the layout is against a wall then it's more difficult to hide a fiddle yard at the back.

 

BTW: Loco lifts or cassettes are simple ways to turn locos at the end of end-to-end layouts.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I wondered about that but I want a layout on a loop and the 750 width gives me the ability to have curves that won't derail anything! I dont really want an end to end layout and to have to work out how to turn the engine round at the ends. Surely a fiddle yard at each end would give me less room for a scenic straight in the middle than having the track simply disappear round a curve? All of the middle of the board would also be free for further ridings, buildings etc.

 

If you are certain that you want a continuous run, you will need at least 600mm width of baseboard in N for a double track, 550mm for a single track.

 

Others have commented on the short length of straight track that will be left but there are ways around that. Many layouts have been designed for 8' x 4' boards in 00 which would work in N on your preferred size of board. US designers, in particular, tend to favour putting a scenic divide across the middle of the board and having two separate scenes.

 

The final solution will depend a lot on the sort of trains that you want to run.

[Imustbemadatmyage]

Hi, and welcome to the hobby.

 

Let Google be your friend - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facing_and_trailing. Remember we drive on the left - including on the railway, and signals are usually on the left of the line.

 

These pages might help a bit - http://www.railway-technical.com/

 

AND never be afraid of asking questions - the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask.  Everybody is friendly here and will help as much as they can.

 

Finally, I would agree that 18" (in real money) is a bit narrow for "N" try to trade width for length - but don't go too wide because of reach problems unless you can get all the way round your model.

 

Many thanks for the help. The links were extremely helpful, particularly the railway technical one. I now understand a lot more of the basics of track design and signalling. I just need to get to grips with Anyrail now so I can start designing my layout. I won't be basing on a real place as no-one can then accuse me of getting details wrong!

 

John

[Joseph_Pestell]

Many thanks for the help. The links were extremely helpful, particularly the railway technical one. I now understand a lot more of the basics of track design and signalling. I just need to get to grips with Anyrail now so I can start designing my layout. I won't be basing on a real place as no-one can then accuse me of getting details wrong!

 

John

 

You would not be able to base on a real place anyway due to the space constraint.

 

But still follow the basic principles or it will just look wrong and be difficult to operate. CJ Freezer's plan books (from Peco Publications) will have a lot of plans that you could work to. But try Anyrail and then ask for comments on here.

[ianLMS]

This site might help with basic track plans. Dimensions are for 00 gauge, but you can simply convert to N gauge. So a 4' x 2'6" N gauge layout could use the same layout plan as an 8ft x 5ft OO gauge layout.

 

http://www.freetrackplans.com/Layout-Plans.php

 

This site might also help with other basics:

 

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/

 

Good luck!

 

Ian

Edited December 11, 2018 by ianLMS

[The Johnster]

If your layout is to be a simple 'trains passing through the scenery' affair, then you could disguise the shortness of the straight at the front by not having one; replace it with a gentle curve which will help to lead a viewer's eye into the sharper end curves.

 

Cyril Freezer's books are an excellent source of inspiration, but should be read in the awareness that they are many decades old, and that the hobby has changed since then.  They are drawn up very cleverly with the usual type of model railway that was common in the 60s, with a very cramped appearance and 2 or 3 coach express trains being acceptable.  Some of the more complex ones are superb examples of quarts in pint pots, and especially where different levels are involved require very precise and complex carpentry and precision tracklaying to have any chance of being built; in fact I suspect that there are some plans that have never been successfully built!

 

But you will get a good grounding in general principles from them, and I would recommend them before any of the RTR plan books which inevitably try to squeeze as many of the company's products in as possible.

 

Check out the 'Bredon' plan; not one of Freezer's but I think it, or something adapted from it, may be something like what you are looking for!

[Imustbemadatmyage]

Thanks for that. I had initially thought to do the layout on Osborns models website where they supply all of the setrack bits needed to complete the layout as a single pack.

 

https://www.osbornsmodels.com/ekmps/shops/osbornsmodels/images/peco-new-plan-001b-n-scale-adding-the-second-oval-7679-p.jpg

 

To my eye this looks like a version of Bredon, simplified for n gauge.

I want to build with code 55 streamline, however, as it looks better and I want to practice my techniques on a small layout to begin with. As I have a larger board than that shown I can't see that any discrepancy in size between setback points and unifrog points would make the layout impractical.

 

Edited for typos

Edited December 11, 2018 by Imustbemadatmyage

[DCB]

As a total newcomer to the idea of railway modelling, I have been avidly reading articles on layout design and find a lot of the terminology rather confusing. What, for example, is a "trailing point"? Is there a resource that I can access to find out what I can and can't do when designing my layout?

I have seen lots of suggested layouts criticised for what appear to me to be quite esoteric reasons. How do I find out how to do it correctly?

I am wanting to plan my first layout in N gauge on a 1200 x 750 baseboard (the largest that the domestic manager will allow!)

 

 

Going back to basics to over simplify a " Facing point" is one you can turn off at  a "Trailing Point" is one you have to reverse over to change tracks.  Its the same point it just depends which way the train travels, . See Pic  For shunting you need trailing points.   otherwise the engine ends up against the buffer stop which is not all that useful. 

Common learner mistake is to forget trains have to start somewhere and finish their journey somewhere.  Even some large layouts approach completion without the builders realising they can't actually run trains on them.  It may be you want to take the train from its box, run it round in a circle and put it back in the box fine, but you need somewhere without any obstructions like scenery to do it, a Fiddle Yard.  

If you are pushed for space consider having the station round the curve.    See my drawing for how to squeeze a bit more length from a loop.

You can do a lot with a station with a simple passing loop on a single line, or one with a pair of "Trailing" crossovers on double line, trains stop to pick up passengers, the trains can reverse, the loco running round to the other end, passenger can overtake goods etc without the loop or pair of crossovers you can't do much at all.  Equally you need more than simply one station, otherwise the train departs and ends up where it started. Again some more loops or somewhere to get trains off the main line is needed to allow you to operate.

00 and N gauges are fundamentally different in design, generally you can reach the back of an N gauge oval layout from one side but you need to get round both sides of an 00 one. 00 works best with an operating well in the middle of the baseboard but you can get away without in N.  However constantly reaching over an N gauge layout to get at a fiddle yard at the back is a pain. Several hidden loops is a good ploy,under a hill maybe with a Web Cam and an old computer to keep an eye on things. 

Everything in model railways is compromise, as there are fixed constraints, money, space, time. Generally its the last 5% that takes 95% of the time, painting a coach takes longer than making a 6X4ft baseboard so don't be afraid to make mistakes or to take it apart and start again.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by DavidCBroad