Shedmaster 47 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hello folks, happy New year to you all .. I am sorry if this question has been addressed elsewhere before .. I have an odd problem with one of my old Hornby sound fitted block's..!! It's a class 60 fitted with sound ( V3:5 ) I would be guessing....if I place it on the track with the front cab the same direction as my other locks it stops running after a short burst ( if it runs at all ) but the sounds won't work !! .... If I lift it off the track and turn it end for end then try to run it ,all is fine .. This happens all the time with this loco ..I bought it some time ago second hand without a body .so can't comment on the lighting circuit !! Any ideas would be welcomed.. Many thanks Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 If it is an older sound-fitted decoder, it could be a Loksound v3.5 or v4. It may or may not help to know what you actually have there. What system are you trying to control it with? Can you read the manufacturer & model id of the decoder? ESU's code is 151. I have just read a 3.5, which is model 59 & a v4 which is model 255 Hornby's manufacturer id is 48 & the only TTS decoder I have is model 132 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hi Pete I have an NCE powercab ..it can't read the chip !! ..all other locomotives I have read and program without a problem ..so presumably there must be an issue with the decoder itself ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 The PowerCab is usually pretty reliable at reading chip codes, so maybe you do have a decoder issue? I know it is a pain but swapping it with one from another loco may show you where the fault is. Does it stay with the chip or the loco? I would start by moving the chip first. If there is a fault with the loco, I would expect it would have blown the chip not just stop it responding, but the chip would be less likely to damage the loco board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 The PowerCab is usually pretty reliable at reading chip codes, so maybe you do have a decoder issue? I know it is a pain but swapping it with one from another loco may show you where the fault is. Does it stay with the chip or the loco? I would start by moving the chip first. If there is a fault with the loco, I would expect it would have blown the chip not just stop it responding, but the chip would be less likely to damage the loco board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thanks Peter. I will check it out with another standard " non- sound " chip when I get a chance ..All the powercab says is " unable to read decoder " ,I hit the enter button anyway and it says " wait " while trying to give me version number etc Always the same result though ... " unable to read " .... Will change chips just for curiosity and see what happens ..thanks .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thanks Peter. I will check it out with another standard " non- sound " chip when I get a chance ..All the powercab says is " unable to read decoder " ,I hit the enter button anyway and it says " wait " while trying to give me version number etc Always the same result though ... " unable to read " .... Will change chips just for curiosity and see what happens ..thanks .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 The symptoms sound exactly like the TTS problem of some time ago when a loco would obnly program and operate in one on-track orientation. The other way round itmwould be unresponsive. The fix was a free reprogram by return to works Hornby. This was the 8-pin TTS decoder though not the earlier ESU - usually 21-pin sound decoder Hornby used. An R number of the loco could help ID the decoder. Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just a thought: if the body was not the original one, the lighting in the cab modules may not be correct for the way Hornby wired the sound locos. For some reason, only theri sound locos (using the 21-pin ESU LokSound decoders) had positive return on the lights, while all other locos had negative return (from memory - maybe it was the other way around). What this meant is if bodies were swapped , one had to swap the cab interiors back to the chassis they started with otherwise the lights would not work. Further to that, is it possible the lights are causing a short in one direction? The ESU decoders do have a form of overload protection so will take themselves off-line if the short occurs.With that in mind, try removing the cab interiors from the body and running the loco without them, then put each one in turn and try it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Hi folks Thanks for the advise ,it would appear that it's just one of those strange things with this loco ...the sound chip is a 21pin without the speaker wired direct .. Curiously the PC board has the 21 pin SOCKET with the blanked off pin on the opposite corner to normal !!!! Meaning that a 21pin blanking plug had to be inserted with the BLOCK facing DOWNWARDS!!...... if this is done , the loco works well on anlouge and faces the same direction as all other loco' s...!!! THE LIGHTING CIRCUIT IS WIRED OPPOSITE TO NORMAL !! I placed a body from another class 60 I have onto this chassis ,only to find the lights won't work !!! No worries; as I have fitted it with a Liam body anyway ( no lights ) .... Thankyou for your kind replies ,but I will just have to make sure I place it on my layout the correct way around ,in this manner it works very well indeed with impressive sounds ... Thanks again . Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 That does not sound like an original class 60 installation. I am not aware of Hornby fitting a 21 pin socket to anything & certainly not on the underside of the board. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Hi Peter ..I assure you the mother board fitted to this " old" chassis is certainly fitted with a 21 interface ....it is NOT fitted on the underside at all !! Just that the missing pin on the mounting block is not in the standard place you would expect it to be ..this means that a blanking plug has to be fitted " upside - down " ....!! Anyway ,not to worry ,it works that's the main thing .albeit apposed to all orher " newer" models !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I meant it sounds like someone has fitted this since it left the Hornby factory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beejack Posted January 19, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2019 Didn't Hornby fit ESU V3.5 and V4.0 chips in their sound locos before TTS came along? If I remember correctly these were all 21 pin versions! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Those sound locos were iD’d by the suffix XS after the R number which is why I asked for it to be posted. E.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OO-Gauge-Hornby-R3267XS-DCC-SOUND-Class-60-005-Skiddaw-Transrail-Loco/202569560518?hash=item2f2a1631c6:g:SKkAAOSwHglcQbdn Rob Edited January 19, 2019 by RAFHAAA96 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 That does not sound like an original class 60 installation. I am not aware of Hornby fitting a 21 pin socket to anything & certainly not on the underside of the board. All of the earlier Hornby non-TTS sound locos had 21-pin ESU decoders and PCBs set up for the 21-pin interface. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beejack Posted January 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) Hi folks Thanks for the advise ,it would appear that it's just one of those strange things with this loco ...the sound chip is a 21pin without the speaker wired direct .. Curiously the PC board has the 21 pin SOCKET with the blanked off pin on the opposite corner to normal !!!! Meaning that a 21pin blanking plug had to be inserted with the BLOCK facing DOWNWARDS!!...... if this is done , the loco works well on anlouge and faces the same direction as all other loco' s...!!! THE LIGHTING CIRCUIT IS WIRED OPPOSITE TO NORMAL !! I placed a body from another class 60 I have onto this chassis ,only to find the lights won't work !!! No worries; as I have fitted it with a Liam body anyway ( no lights ) .... Thankyou for your kind replies ,but I will just have to make sure I place it on my layout the correct way around ,in this manner it works very well indeed with impressive sounds ... Thanks again . Allan just found this on the Hornby website. Class-60-(Sound).pdf Looks from the picture on page two that the decoder is indeed fitted upside down Edited January 20, 2019 by beejack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Hi folks Thanks for the advise ,it would appear that it's just one of those strange things with this loco ...the sound chip is a 21pin without the speaker wired direct .. Curiously the PC board has the 21 pin SOCKET with the blanked off pin on the opposite corner to normal !!!! Meaning that a 21pin blanking plug had to be inserted with the BLOCK facing DOWNWARDS!!...... if this is done , the loco works well on anlouge and faces the same direction as all other loco' s...!!! THE LIGHTING CIRCUIT IS WIRED OPPOSITE TO NORMAL !! I placed a body from another class 60 I have onto this chassis ,only to find the lights won't work !!! No worries; as I have fitted it with a Liam body anyway ( no lights ) .... Thankyou for your kind replies ,but I will just have to make sure I place it on my layout the correct way around ,in this manner it works very well indeed with impressive sounds ... Thanks again . Allan I have had two like this to, another Hornby Cock Up !!! Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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