Graham Farish 1950s made 00 van body

[john new]

Going through my bits box I came across two old metal Graham Farish 00 box van bodies, grey with vented ends (2 vents). I'd forgotten I'd still got these which I think my late father must have bought back in the late 1950s (possibly early 60s) as I vaguely recall them on our first layout decades ago. For sentimental reasons rather than just use them as grounded bodies I am looking at possible options to fit a roof and new chassis/under-frame to them, the originals are lost or too damaged to repair. Place of manufacture Bromley, Kent.

 

Point of post - were they a freelance van design by Farish or based on anything prototypical? What's left of the original paintwork is a pale grey/possibly very pale green livery, suggesting ex-GWR, but there is no trace of any lettering or a BR ID number panel ever having been present.

 

The variable widths to the end planking suggests that they are a based on something rather than a totally freelance design. Unfortunately I don't know enough about vans to recognise the type.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by john new

[john new]

Definitely freelance.  The ends look like southern but with wrong roof profile and the sides look like GW.

 

Thank you. Will use marked up as DVR on the under construction shunting plank, setting not yet 100% finalised but most likely to be (very) loosely based on a spur off the Derwent Valley Light Railway. That changed over time to DVR, from the original DVLR, perhaps to avoid clashing with the Swansea car tax place's initials when that opened. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

It's a GW design van in all essentials. The little GF OO I have seen tended strongly toward the 'freelance' end of the modelling spectrum. Possibly represents a wartime build when the mixed sheeting width seen on the ends might have been employed as an economy measure; or in your light railway context it might be an ex railway company vehicle that has received local refurbishment to correct the damage done by Powerful Peter the Porter who slammed the loads of 'whatever' hard against the vans's ends every time?

[Il Grifone]

 Back in the day (I was still in primary school!), we thought these were excellent with all their detail, but really they are just a generic van. Too long and too tall and too heavy, The solebars are too far apart and the axleguard casting is fanciful. The less said about the buffers the better.

 

Apart from that they are rather attractive and my collection includes several. They came in dark brown (Southern?), bauxite and various shades of grey. I would suggest the use of an inside bearing wheel unit as the original axles were quite long and high friction.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Il Grifone

[The Johnster]

I'd say they were more GW than Southern, but the uneven planking on the ends does look like an Ashford design.  To be honest, that sort of die cast chassis is never really going to run well or look particularly good especially if you have some more modern vans on your layout.  I'd be painting them and weathering them up as derelict siding lurkers, but of course their sentimental value probably means that you'd want to give them a higher profile than that!

 

They look heavy; doubt many modern RTR locos would manage a 60 wagon length train of them.  They've survived well if they're mazak, though.  The planking and rivet detail is credible for a vehicle that old; Hornby Dublo were still making tin plate printed sides and Triang were moulding raised lines instead of grooves between the planks.  Underframe detail is a bit crude, but come on, guys, this is still not bad for a 1950s die cast model! 

[Fat Controller]

A slight aside; when we first moved down to Kent in 1991, we used to vary our routes to London, especially as Lynne was then based in Sutton. On one occasion, we went past Bromley, and I was somewhat surprised to see the name 'Graham Farish' painted in large letters on the roof of a former goods shed.

[Il Grifone]

Heavy is an understatement! Coupled with arthritic running gear, six is nearer the mark! The wagon body castings seem reasonably immune from the pest, but the underframe units are a different matter. Farish locomotives* and the coaches suffer badly. Any plastic parts (an acetate cousin) are invariably warped.

 

This refers to the early fifties production, though the sixties locomotives are not immune. Later Farish plastic is polystyrene and OK.

 

The weight is not a problem for a small layout/short trains and pin point bearings would help considerably.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Butler Henderson]

According to British Model Trains Catalogue the metal van had a tinplate roof and was manufactured between 1949 and 1951, and then a batch in 1953 with Formo cast into the box on the underside. A polystyrene van is listed as being produced in 1962-1964. In 1973 a new single vent van was introduced made in LMS grey, NE red brown, SR brown and from 1974 as Bass and Worthington models. This was replaced in, it is believed, 1975 by a new version as the 1973 van was too tall and can be identified by having a plank above the door.  The later van was produced until 1981 in GW grey, Knorr. Terrys, Zoflora, Fyffes, Railmail and Beatties liveries and had LMS style sliding doors. In 1974 a twin vent van introduced akin to GWR types with a pair of hinged doors in GW grey, LMS grey, SR brown, Sportsman, Gibbs SR, John West and Beatties liveries.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Butler Henderson

[john new]

According to British Model Trains Catalogue the metal van had a tinplate roof and was manufactured between 1949 and 1951, and then a batch in 1953 with Formo cast into the box on the underside. A polystyrene van is listed as being produced in 1962-1964. In 1973 a new single vent van was introduced made in LMS grey, NE red brown, SR brown and from 1974 as Bass and Worthington models. This was replaced in, it is believed, 1975 by a new version as the 1973 van was too tall and can be identified by having a plank above the door.  The later van was produced until 1981 in GW grey, Knorr. Terrys, Zoflora, Fyffes, Railmail and Beatties liveries and had LMS style sliding doors. In 1974 a twin vent van introduced akin to GWR types with a pair of hinged doors in GW grey, LMS grey, SR brown, Sportsman, Gibbs SR, John West and Beatties liveries.

 

That puts these, I think, into the 49-51 era batch as the wording underneath says Graham Farish not Formo. 

[Ian Kirk]

My late Father was really an aeromodeller but around 49/50 had a brief experiment with the then fairly new 2 rail 00. He had some of these plus some ERG cardboard wagons he built himself. Once I had started in 00 with a Triang train set 55/56 (I had had O gauge Hornby clockwork before then) developing into my first layout he passed these on to me. There were a van, like the one above but brown, a wooden open in brown,a steel mineral in grey and a brake van. I had some ham fisted attempts to "improve" them as I got older but once plastic kits came along they were just too heavy and I got rid of them. They were not scale models but for their time were very good. For old times sake I picked up one of the brakes at a Show I was at and attach a picture. Scanned not photographed so not very clear (must get a camera).

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Il Grifone]

That puts these, I think, into the 49-51 era batch as the wording underneath says Graham Farish not Formo. 

 

The Formo wagons had a new underfame with metal internal bearing units integrated with the couplings. AFAIK they only came in light grey. I bought a couple priced 4/6d each in the late fifties*. They, unlike the Farish ones, wnich were 2 rail, had diecast non-insulated wheels of a rather awful profile prone to derailment.  There was a set comprising an 0-6-0 vaguely like an SR Q class with BFB wheels, a van, steel and wooden mineral wagons and a brake van similar to the above Farish version. The track was similar to Dublo but had a wider base and steel rail. The axleguards and brake gear are lntegral with the body and they have very dumpy buffers (cf Dublo). About the same time a second seies of Farish wagons appeared with 3 and 5 plank opens and bolster and match trucks.

 

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Three-rail_00-gauge_train_set_(Formo)

 

The later (c 1961) plastic van was obviously intended to be an LNER design but rather dimensionally challenged. There were  also the steel and wooden minerals and the brake van, but all redesigned. Still later they were revised again and came with a pinpoint bearing underframe

Edited January 27, 2019 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

I've never found a prototype for the brake van. The strut in the middle of the veranda is distinctive and unusual.

 

IIRC the van of Henry's 'Flying Kipper' had one but my Thomas book collection disappeared a long time ago.