Programming LGB MTS Locos with a Lenz DCC System

[Simon G]

My local MRC has a LGB MTS equipped starter set (78255, which comprises 2 chipped locos, and a 55005 base station and 55016p handheld controller).  I am struggling to get it to work, as the instructions are sparse to say the least.  Can anyone tell me if I could program and test the LGB locos with a Lenz DCC system (LH100)?

[Phil S]

Yes and No....  MTS is an early implementation, and therefore has some early devices ...because it was a leader in introducing dcc functions ahead of others.  [MTS1 WAS Lenz BUILT, locos 1-8]

So, SOME OLDER Locos may be fitted with early decoders which only accept 'Serial' Functions ... where '1' is transmitted X number of times for function X  ....at about 1 second intervals / as fast as you can press the button repeatedly ..... These functions, if they exist, in an early sound loco will only go up to about 8 at most.

It is possible to manually generate even F7 or F8 by repeated pressing ... but you may not always get the timing right 8-(

LATER CONTROLLERS aquired the letter P ( older controllers could be sent back for an upgrade - no longer available, I believe).   For some time before then, the loco decoders had parallel understanding built-in and an increased addressing range - ultimately to the full dcc range, even though the LGB MTS RED handsets only ever supported 0-22 ..... the MTS3 controller could support 32 locos ... by using a Massoth Navigator as a cabled handset ... then the controller would operate in 28 speed steps too .... the red handsets being 14 with MTS 1 and MTS2 or MTS2P   interpolated to 28 with the Massoth 

[BTW - When used with the Navigator - the MTS3 accepted 32 different locos .. which could be any valid DCC number  (including 4 digit long addresses) - BUT the central controller did not like forgetting earlier locos !!!!  ... Especially when used with a range of visiting locos, or if you had more than 32, then you soon found out that the MTS3 'locked up' - no new locos accepted ... so that is when We changed to full DCC std with the Massoth Dimax Central Controller...

 

[Note that although only 14 speed steps may have been sent by an MTS handset, the MTS decoders internally interpolate to to 1024 steps ... and use a memory to remember the last valid command as dirty track can be a problem in the garden ! ]

 

PROBLEMS YOU MAY FIND when trying to program an LGB loco on another system - mainly relate to the current which may be taken by the loco being out of range of your Lenz controller: ENSURE Lighting is OFF and Sound Off, if you can - try making use of Function on/off beforehand and/or the power-control switch in each LGB loco to see if that helps - If not using my Massoth, I would be using a Roco Multimaus WITHOUT readback - as readback simply slows programming, and if it doesn't like the current range reading back, a readback controller may drop-out of programming. (error 2 on expressnet??)

SPEED STEPS: 14 for MTS with MTS Red handsets    28 if used with Massoth navigator and MTS3 / Dimax

MTS accepts the use of Loco 0 - not all do .. and of course it is not recommended to leave it buzzing when stationary (use the isolate motor switch) ... but the unfitted locos are rugged enough to run in loco 0 8-(

 

The Massoth Navigator comes with a fraphic library of LGB loco images and has 2-way comms, and will program locos - with readback .. the simplest option  - if you have one available.

 

DIRECTION:  The STANDARD DIRECTION for LGB is the OPPOSITE of Std DCC ... so this needs to checked for digitised locos which may be run on an analogue layout (some layouts may use automation which does not simply allow the controller to be reversed). Bachmann LARGE SCALE locos usually have a DIRECTION SWITCH.

I have chosen to adopt common dcc standards ... but occasionally find my locos want to run backwards when visiting analogue layouts....

KEEP THE NUMBER RANGE 1-22 to guarantee compatibility with LGB RED handsets -  watch for lights going on and off with speed if the 14/28 steps do not match. Functons 1-8 plus directional lighting are available.

(With a Massoth User or other dcc system - more functions to the full extent.

 

MODERN MARKLIN BUILT LGB may contain a multistandard MFX/DCC decoder - read its manual first, and get over the translation errors.    LGB Dealers have been selling the Central Station3 to users, and THIS YEAR Marklin have announced new controllers for LGB  ... they look like Massoth in a new colour ... but then Massoth have been making LGBs electronics all these years.

 

If trying to program the Allegra - it has a special 'programming' interconnecting lead - which omits the motor connection between the outer cars with puckups (+motors), and the central car with the decoder.

Non LGB locos like USA trains may have much higher motor currents than LGB ... this may be a problem when programming ... add a resistor in series ????

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Phil S
adding note about internal interpolation from 14 to 1024 steps

[Simon G]

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply.  I have persevered with the LGB MTS controller, and have managed to get it to work with the two locos, as well as another LGB loco.  I have managed to get the lights working as well, but haven’t tried further, as I am just happy that it works.  As a result, I think I will give trying the locos on the Lenz a miss!

[oldpete]

the fact that the controller has a 'P' sticker denotes that it is the later parallel MTS controller - all the manuals including the CV settings are downloadable from the LGB website

did you get the programming 'head' that clips into the handset, ( should be included in the 'starter' set.) ?

I bought all my LGB, before Markelin took them over and the prices went astronomical.

I use this set-up with radio control to run my garden railway.

Edited April 27, 2019 by oldpete
update on info

[Phil S]

Whereabouts are you? There may be a member of the g scale society near you. ...'we'  are across the whole country 8-)

 

Although there is a wide range of members interests... Battery/ RC / live steam /rc  analogue and digital via MTS and 'standard' NMRAdcc or now also Macklin Mfx. ,... Your local area organiser should be able to find a member who can help.

 

We started with MTS2serial,  then upgraded everything to parallel MTS2p then MTS 3 and finally Massoth Dimax 800  ( full std DCC  with 2-way wireless Navigator handsets. ... For the garden. But for our 3 variants of portable G scale layouts we exclusively use standard Rock Multimaus and amplifier, or MultiCentralePro and wireless multimauspro or now the Z21 and LAN multimauses and a tablet to change points with a touch of the fingure on a diagram of the layout.   .... We don't need a booster on the portable layouts - even the 17mlong version as mostly only 1 ( or2 ) of theenginè are moving at anyone time ( the 3-car Allegra unit takes the 3.2Amp output close to its limit on a slightly sloping ground ,... Which is why we need the higher output of the Massoth dimax in the garden.  ( we use Rocomultimauses / MCP / Z21 for our 00 and H0 )

Nowadays Macklin is promoting their Central Station3 / 3+ which supports Mfx (and DCC) to lgb users .. Digital locos come with an Mfx and DCC decoder.