Ffarquhar - North Western Region of British Railways

[Tom F]

Evening guys

 

Tonight I've finally got around to continuing with the baseboard construction. As of tonight, two of the scenic baseboards are pretty much done, with the third ready to put together tomorrow.

 

I have however had a possible change of plan. Using the 2ft 6 by 10ft boards I'm looking at possibly not doing Tidmouth Yards....but instead:

 

 

 

The plan below is a pretty rough interpretation, and I'll have a better idea what works once the boards are up and I start laying the tracks out.

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Tom F

[Aire Head]

This topic has fascinated me far more than it should! I would personally stick with the docks rather than the MPD but that might just be my preference for running good trains.

 

I've often considered that Vicarstown would make a good layout as you have the meeting of BR and the NWR. 

[Csalem]

Could always start with the docks, and then get some more baseboards and add on the sheds, and finally add on the station. 

 

Whatever you go for I look forward to seeing it come together.

[Tom F]

3 hours ago, Aire Head said:

This topic has fascinated me far more than it should! I would personally stick with the docks rather than the MPD but that might just be my preference for running good trains.

 

I've often considered that Vicarstown would make a good layout as you have the meeting of BR and the NWR. 

 

I think I'm drawn to doing the shed area as I'm considering filming the layout, and using it as the base for depicting the odd Awdry story. I've also kept the running lines along the front for loco/trains coming in and out. It also reduces my costs as I wont require as much stock which is on my mind at the moment.

 

Once I've got the boards up, I can properly decide what I would like to do.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Tom F

[Fat Controller]

49 minutes ago, Tom F said:

 

I think I'm drawn to doing the shed area as I'm considering filming the layout, and using it as the base for depicting the odd Awdry story. I've also kept the running lines along the front for loco/trains coming in and out. It also reduces my costs as I wont require as much stock which is on my mind at the moment.

 

Once I've got the boards up, I can properly decide what I would like to do.

Are you following  Awdry's illustrations religously? If not, could I suggest making the coaling stage a single road; the second track doesn't serve any purpose if there isn't a track at ground level for the wagons to drop coal into.  

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, Tom F said:

 

I think I'm drawn to doing the shed area as I'm considering filming the layout, and using it as the base for depicting the odd Awdry story. I've also kept the running lines along the front for loco/trains coming in and out. It also reduces my costs as I wont require as much stock which is on my mind at the moment.

 

Once I've got the boards up, I can properly decide what I would like to do.

That makes a lot of sense and is the kind of consideration I should give to projects! 

 

Out of interest what is the purpose of the siding to the front that seems to be completely disconnected from anything else?

[Tom F]

9 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Are you following  Awdry's illustrations religously? If not, could I suggest making the coaling stage a single road; the second track doesn't serve any purpose if there isn't a track at ground level for the wagons to drop coal into.  

 

I've wondered about that, and couldn't see the logic for the two lines.

7 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Out of interest what is the purpose of the siding to the front that seems to be completely disconnected from anything else?

 

The siding was purely for cosmetic visuals, but I've now tweaked to so it's actually a proper siding which I can at least shunt with.

 

I'd appreciate what you guys think.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Tom F

[Tom F]

Regarding the plan above, I've found it a bit of a balancing act of doing something 'prototypical' while also representing the illustrations.

 

The main oddity is that the track plan of lines coming out of the sheds, don't seem to condense down to a couple of roads as you would expect, instead all the lines head off to the station (which makes little sense), so I've tried to gradually condense them down and imagine they reduce further towards to the station perhaps.

 

I imagine the crossover between roads 1, 2 and 3 is actually a double slip....it doesn't make sense that road 2 wouldn't be able to access road 1 to the coaling stage. The best view in my mind is this one from Book 18 (apologies for sharing again). Later illustrations show a 3 way point, which personally I'm not keen on.

 

 

A later view from Book 23

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Tom F

[russ p]

Are the track layouts always the same in different pictures?  As in the pictures above there are steps to the coaling stage in one picture but not the other 

[Corbs]

43 minutes ago, russ p said:

Are the track layouts always the same in different pictures?  As in the pictures above there are steps to the coaling stage in one picture but not the other 

The steps are in both pics, look behind the light stand.

[Tom F]

41 minutes ago, russ p said:

Are the track layouts always the same in different pictures?  As in the pictures above there are steps to the coaling stage in one picture but not the other 

They become pretty standardised by the time John T Kenney and Peter Edward's began illustrating. The steps are in both photos if you look carefully, they are in the shadow of the yard lamp.

Another view showing the Coaling Stage from a different angle, from Book 13 'Duck and the Diesel Engine (scanned from the original 1958 edition).

 

[russ p]

Must be difficult to get continuity throughout the series mind

In the picture above looks like Ducks Irish cousin  Drake O'Pannier as the track looks quite wide guage 

[Gibbo675]

22 minutes ago, russ p said:

Must be difficult to get continuity throughout the series mind

In the picture above looks like Ducks Irish cousin  Drake O'Pannier as the track looks quite wide guage 

Hi Russ,

 

That's a HO gauge pannier, the little known imaginary Lima offering from the 1970's !

 

Gibbo.

[Csalem]

I like the original layout with the coaling stage between two lines, though the shed area obviously had to be redesigned when more locos arrived:

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, Csalem said:

I like the original layout with the coaling stage between two lines, though the shed area obviously had to be redesigned when more locos arrived:

 

 

It's an interesting illustration as it does show an early representation, but I have to be honest that I pay little interest to a lot of the Dalby illustrations as they lack the realism I feel Awdry was trying to achieve. From the layout perspective, my focus is primarily on the John T Kenney and Peter Edward's illustrations. 

If I had a lot of money and could time travel! I'd have either John T Kenney or Peter Edwards re-illustrate books 1-11.... I appreciate that might be sacrileges! 

[Tom F]

I'm going to retrace my steps a bit here, because the coaling stage design didn't really change, and it's interesting that the photo Csalem posted concrete design stayed the same.

 

What is a shame is during the Christopher Awdry period, the illustrator Clive Spong's interpretation turned into it just being a large mound with no vertical wall for the locos stand beside to be coaled. It does however show it being open with what looks like there being another area for coaling on the other side. Hard to understand the logic of this when the line on the other side (which we never see) has no link to the engine sheds.

 

 

 

Is the design based on anything in particular?

 

I will be grassing the 'mound' on my model. The whole 'earth' effect wouldn't last too long in a heavy downpour!

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Tom F

[Corbs]

Spong is very hit and miss, I find. His early stuff was appalling, [controversial opinion] 'Really Useful Engines' is one of the worst illustrated books in the series, especially following on from Edwards, Spong's later stuff is ok but very bland and still with loads of perspective oddities. 

 

Look how Duck's pannier tank doesn't extend to the front of the footplate in the first of those two shots, and how Donald has a weird flared firebox in the second. There's also seemingly no ballast, at least Dalby gave the suggestion of detail and texture.

[Aire Head]

I suspect for the shed following the illustrations is best avoided as all the roads seem to feed directly into the station. I might have a play around on xtrkcad tonight to see if I can come up with something more plausible.

[Aire Head]

Do we have an overall idea of where everything is in Tidmouth, where the station is, how many platforms it is, where the branch line is in relation to the mainline. What do we know regarding the docks, also I presume there is a good yard is it ever depicted?

[Csalem]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

Do we have an overall idea of where everything is in Tidmouth, where the station is, how many platforms it is, where the branch line is in relation to the mainline. What do we know regarding the docks, also I presume there is a good yard is it ever depicted?

 

The Thomas The Tank Engine Wiki has a good selection of all images related to Tdimouth.

 

Station area:

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Tidmouth/Gallery

 

Engine Shed:

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Tidmouth_Sheds/Gallery

 

Harbour:

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Tidmouth_Harbour/Gallery

 

Yards:

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Tidmouth_Yards/Gallery

 

I don't think it has ever been shown how Duck's branch fits into the station area. And it has never really been clear how the yard/harbour fits inot the station area, though in some of the shed shots looking towards the station, harbour cranes can be seen in background.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Csalem

[Csalem]

This picture is under the Tidmouth Yard section but provides a close-up (of sorts) to the coaling stage:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ttte/images/6/64/DuckTakesChargeRS5.png/revision/latest?cb=20160323213735

[Tom F]

2 hours ago, Corbs said:

Spong is very hit and miss, I find. His early stuff was appalling, [controversial opinion] 'Really Useful Engines' is one of the worst illustrated books in the series, especially following on from Edwards, Spong's later stuff is ok but very bland and still with loads of perspective oddities. 

 

Absolutely and 100% in agreement with you. 'Really Useful Engines' illustrations are very poor in comparison to the Edward's illustrations. Spong's later stuff is pretty good (I do like 'Henry and the Express's illustrations') but the countryside/scenery is as you say, rather bland.

[Tom F]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

I suspect for the shed following the illustrations is best avoided as all the roads seem to feed directly into the station. I might have a play around on xtrkcad tonight to see if I can come up with something more plausible.

 

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Do we have an overall idea of where everything is in Tidmouth, where the station is, how many platforms it is, where the branch line is in relation to the mainline. What do we know regarding the docks, also I presume there is a good yard is it ever depicted?

 

According to the Rev Awdry:

 

The passenger Railway Station has an all-over glass roof

spanning four terminal roads and one “through road” (MLE/

33,35;EE/9). The ”through road” leads into the Arlesburgh..

Branch which is commonly known as “The Little Western” or

Duck's Branch Line.

 

Regarding the shed lines, they do indeed look to all head towards the station, which looks and is unprototypical (and rather silly). That's why I've gone with a  compromise below, which has all the lines gradually reducing (and then would continue towards the station off scene).

[Aire Head]

3 hours ago, Tom F said:

 

 

According to the Rev Awdry:

 

The passenger Railway Station has an all-over glass roof

spanning four terminal roads and one “through road” (MLE/

33,35;EE/9). The ”through road” leads into the Arlesburgh..

Branch which is commonly known as “The Little Western” or

Duck's Branch Line.

 

Regarding the shed lines, they do indeed look to all head towards the station, which looks and is unprototypical (and rather silly). That's why I've gone with a  compromise below, which has all the lines gradually reducing (and then would continue towards the station off scene).

I do like your plan, I was actually meaning the full station as the illustrations don't really show anything you would require for a station the size of Tidmouth. Should have been clearer!

[Aire Head]

So based off the available images of Tidmouth it appears as though the shed is on the opposite side of the station to the docks and the Arlesburgh branch. The yard appears to have no particular fixed location. The station itself seems to have anywhere between 1 and 3 roof sections.

 

I do love the railways series but as expressed earlier I really wish the artists had been consistent! 

 

Apologies to Tom if I'm taking this off topic!