Southern Breakdown train vehicles (1561s) - Staff/Tool/Mess vans

[Jack P]

Hello again collective southern mind,

 

I'm sure given the release of the new Bachmann Cranes I'm not the only one looking for some slightly more specific information on this. From my understanding 1561s was allocated to Guildford in the early 1940's. From the few photographs of guildford shed that I can find, you can see the road along side of the shed where the crane was kept, and what looks to be (from the end view) a birdcage coach of some description.

 

Is anyone to give any more detailed information about what specific vehicles were in this trains formation? Or, where I would be able to find this information myself, I've flicked through 'Service stock of the SR' - Oakwood, but (unless i'm not looking hard enough) can't find anything specific, or conclusive, just general information.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Wickham Green]

Have you looked through Gould's SECR bogie carriages book ?  It lists many re-purposed vehicles with their Departmental numbers though I'm not sure whether you could actually pin one down to the Guildford Breakdown Train.

Otherwise, there are odd pictures of Departmentals in many of Dave Larkin's books or, perhaps Mike King's 'In Colour' series. 

[Tony Cane]

I am currently building a set of support coaches to go with the 1561S crane.

Like you I only have the Service Stock book for information. While there is little specific information on the vehicles used during WWII there are some clues in the text.  In 1935/6 an ex LSWR 6 wheel passenger brake van was converted for breakdown use at Guildford. This could still be in use in 1940 and can be modelled using the Roxey kit.

The Bricklayers Arms train had 3 coaches converted for it in 1932-4, but these were replaced during the war with newly converted ex LBSR railway coaches. A picture of these can be found on page 97. There is also a reference in the text to similar coaches being assigned to Guildford and Feltham (see page 124) . These are the initial stabling points for 1560s and 1561s.

The photograph on page 97 shows that the duckets have been removed and the underframe strengthened with a girder on the side. My assumption is that strengthening is related to expected needs for wartime emergencies. Some extra heavy equipment perhaps. It is reasonable to assume that the other breakdown cranes were similarly equipped.

Many years ago I converted some Triang GWR clerestory coaches to reasonably good representations of LBSR types, using the articles in the Railway Modeller. One of these is very close to the type listed as allocated to Feltham or Guildford and similar to that shown in the picture on page 97.

For now I will be using a different ex LSWR passenger luggage van in the train, as I have one available. Eventually I will replace it with the Roxey kit.

While not as definitive as a dated picture of the train, the above is my best guess as to the support coaches used with 1561S. A second van is also a possibility as, as well as a tool van a vehicle of timber packing may have been used.

[Tony Cane]

Further to the reply from Mike King in the 45 ton Ransomes Crane topic, I have found a picture that possibly confirms that a pair of LBSCR coaches formed the support train for 1561S.

In the publication Southern Way Special Issue No 3 Wartime Southern is a picture of a derailment at Betchwoth in October 1940. This is close to Guildford and the crane attending is of the correct type. Beyond the crane are two arc roofed bogie coaches, no other details can be observed, other than one has a lighter roof. Beyond the second coach is the locomotive.