Early 1960s mineral flows in the Thames Valley

[Tallpaul69]

Hi All,

Around 1960-62, apart from coal, and its associated products plus the empties therefrom, what mineral flows were there along the GW main line between Acton and Reading or along the Wycombe branch, destined  for or originating from beyond the Thames Valley area, a) in block formations b) as a section comprising c1-6 wagons of a mixed freightwagons? 

Also in the same area and timescale, what were fitted bauxite 16T minerals used for as against unfitted grey 16T minerals?

 

Many thanks

Paul

[eastglosmog]

Aggregate for certain. London has an insatiable demand for it.

[jim.snowdon]

2 minutes ago, eastglosmog said:

Aggregate for certain. London has an insatiable demand for it.

It does now, probably much more than in the 1960s. Nonetheless, judging by the number of now water filled holes in and around the Thames valley west of London, a lot of the aggregate used then was locally won and, probably, road hauled between pit and site.

 

Jim

[eastglosmog]

Quote from the BGS website on Aggregates regarding quarrying of Limestone in the Mendips:

"Output until 1919 was generally below 0.5 million tonnes per year, but increased road building and construction in the interwar period caused it to be almost tripled by 1931. It then fluctuated over the next twenty years but rose from 2 to 3 million tonnes in the 1950s to a new peak of 12.6 million tonnes in 1973, largely on the basis of 'exports' to south-east England."

So how ever many gravel pits there may have been in the Thames valley, there was still a large demand for crushed limestone.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, eastglosmog said:

Aggregate for certain. London has an insatiable demand for it.

Not that early.  I can't think of any major aggregate movements over the GWML east of Reading c.1960.  There might have been something going to Hayes and and Dawley where there were aggregate plants but I can't recall anything coming up by rail from the west back then (mainly because there wasn't anything coming this far out of the Mendips by rail to that area at that time).  

 

There was a plant at Taplow but it didn't receive railborne stone until 1969.   As Jim has said there was a massive amount of gravel extraction going on in the Thames Valley and new pits were being developed in various places in the 1960s (and still are as it happens) but Mendip stone didn't get into the modern market in any way until the mid 1960s with the various motorway contracts.   Roadstone normally came in by road, for instance we had a roadstone contractor near us and their site was 2 miles from the nearest railway line so totally uneconomic to bring in stone by rail.  Don't forget that in the way it was still quarried in the early 1960s stone for road and concrete making was a low value product where transportation added massively to the cost, it was simply uneconomic to transport it in less than trainloads.

[Fat Controller]

If there were a stone plant with 'history', it might be the one at Hayes that had a tippler on a dead-end road. This strikes me a rather un-economical, involving every train being broken into individual wagons, then coupled again after unloading. 

The other source of aggregates is shingle; either dredged (Samuel Williams at Dagenham, and Brett at Cliffe) or from the Dungeness area. The latter was sufficient to merit a large fleet of steel-bodied Hyfits, with doors welded shut.

[jointline]

The Stationmaster is spot on. Only coal, and that ceased with the closure of Southall and Kensal Green gas works,  and the phasing out of domestic coal. Crow Catchpole at Hayes  got a few wagons, but can't recall block workings. This was for road surfacing rather than construction work, but open to correction on this. I think they had a rotary tippler, but this was later in the sixties. 

All aggregates went by road from local pits, and the rates were fiercely competitive, and were very time and distance sensitive. (I used to work in the pricing office of a gravel firm so am talking from first hand experience.) The short distances would have made rail uncompetitive for a lot of it, until the vast quantities required in modern London became a reality, and green belt land became more expensive. 

[Rivercider]

Would tarred stone have been a valuable enough product worth moving long distances?

 

Foster Yeoman operated a fleet of 150 five plank 12t wagons from the 1920s to 1949. They were not 'pooled' in WWII as they were in use for tarred stone. The FY booklet mentions crushed stone and rock went to the South and South East between the wars.  

 

cheers

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Rivercider said:

Would tarred stone have been a valuable enough product worth moving long distances?

 

Foster Yeoman operated a fleet of 150 five plank 12t wagons from the 1920s to 1949. They were not 'pooled' in WWII as they were in use for tarred stone. The FY booklet mentions crushed stone and rock went to the South and South East between the wars.  

 

cheers

Modern coated stone has to be kept warm hence it is moved in insulated tipper trailers.  I'm not sure when cold coating went out (Note*) but I would think a good time back as anything I can remember being tipped on road construction back in the 1960s was all warm coated.

 

Note * I think you can still buy cold coated stone, Jewsons sold me a 25kg bag of it a few years back but I don't think it has been used in road work for a good long time.  Incidentally a major component of coated stone is sand which forma a layer between the stone core and the bitumen to help adhesion of the latter thus any coating plant also needs a supply of sand.

[Fat Controller]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Modern coated stone has to be kept warm hence it is moved in insulated tipper trailers.  I'm not sure when cold coating went out (Note*) but I would think a good time back as anything I can remember being tipped on road construction back in the 1960s was all warm coated.

 

Note * I think you can still buy cold coated stone, Jewsons sold me a 25kg bag of it a few years back but I don't think it has been used in road work for a good long time.  Incidentally a major component of coated stone is sand which forma a layer between the stone core and the bitumen to help adhesion of the latter thus any coating plant also needs a supply of sand.

Cold-rolled is often used on repairs to potholes; as it often doesn't key properly to the existing, it's not a great deal of use.