Suggestions/Improvements wanted!

[BBuckley]

I have been working on this plan for my layout for a couple of months. The station is loosely based on Wolverhampton Low Level but is a compromise due to the space. I am open to any suggestions from all of you with much more experience than me, but I am particularly looking for suggestions for the sidings just below the station in blue (I'm trying to get some space to store some rakes of carriages, but also some goods vehicles) and the loco yard at the bottom in yellow.

 

Any ideas welcome as I know there are some of you who can offer a lot to this stage of a layout!

 

Thanks

Plan.pdf

[The Johnster]

Couple of general opinions... 

 

.The curves seem sharp, and I suspect could eased by having less straight track in the right and left areas of the plan, between the station and the loco shed.  This would give the plan a better 'flow', and IMHO look more realistic; real railways usually have transition curves rather than suddenly veering off in a new direction...

 

.You probably have specific reasons for basing your model on Wolverhampton LL, which was a lovely station and very atmospheric.  I sort of see where you're coming from; the real place was quite constricted and there are tunnels for fy entrances.  But the centre roads were really sidings and seem to me to be using a lot of your restricted space for little operational advantage.

 

.If it was me, I'd want a lot more freight and goods facilities; I like shunting and there was, in steam days, a lot more freight traffic than passenger in the West Midlands, and a lot of other places as well.  But your sidings 'blue' area where this might take place is restricted by being inside the radius of your sharpest curves.  Losing the centre roads and extending the blue sidings to the top in the space saved will be easier and give them more room, but it's a bit 'unWolverhampton LL' like.

 

.An alternative might be to ditch the loco shed and use the space for a goods depot, but again you're restricted by those minimum curves.  The shed, if you want one, can go in one of the corners; model the yard and a roundhouse in low relief and you don't need the turntable, which'll save more dead space.  Having in outside the circuit of running lines would be better.

 

.I think you need a fiddle yard or some sort of off stage storage,

[Dungrange]

I know nothing of the Wolverhampton area, but I agree with the above post - I don't see what the operational benefit is of the loops between your two platforms.  Unless you're terminating two trains and running round both at the same time, I'd have thought you could loose one or both of the centre roads unless they are really characteristic of Wolverhampton Low Level.

 

I'd also have thought it unlikely that the way into your motive power depot is via a facing point.  I'd have thought access via a trailing point would have been more likely.

 

I also agree that there should be some form of fiddle yard, otherwise you're effectively stabling your trains in the station and running these round the rest of the layout one at a time.

 

You also seem to have what looks like two bay platforms at the top, but I don't see how these are supposed to operate.  A train departing from top left seems to have a lot of wrong line running before you can change onto the correct line via you crossover at the bottom.  Similarly, you need a lot of wrong line running to access the bay platform at the top right.

 

Finally, any goods train leaving from your blue area and heading right, would have a lot of wrong line running to be able to get onto the correct track.

 

Ultimately though, it's up to you how you want to operate the layout, so good luck with whatever you decide.

[Flying Pig]

50 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

I know nothing of the Wolverhampton area, but I agree with the above post - I don't see what the operational benefit is of the loops between your two platforms.  Unless you're terminating two trains and running round both at the same time, I'd have thought you could loose one or both of the centre roads unless they are really characteristic of Wolverhampton Low Level

 

They are really - here's the Disused Stations entry for orientation and thumbnail signal plans on the Signalling Record Society site for North and South boxes.

 

Although it's becoming a cliché to suggest it, I think a layout based on the north end only would work well, centring on the throat, bays and ends of the main platforms, with the curtain walls and footbridge limiting the view.  

[DCB]

Wolverhampton L/L was a really unusual station, as it was the terminus for the GWR London - Birmingham trains, Few trains ran through non stop, and a lot of passenger trains changed engines. Bit like Plymouth Laira without the Southern.  Probably too much station for a lone operator.   With no Fiddle Yard or hidden sidings this layout is basically a scenic Fiddleyard, trains go out one end and back in the other. There is next to no operating potential. Wolverhampton had two big loco depots and the Stafford Road works. It might be interesting to build and detail but for me the lack of operating potential would suggest a ground up rethink for a simpler station and a decent fiddleyard.  My Loft layout had a marshalling yard and loco shed at a station just down the line from a terminus.  ECS and expresses ran through, goods changed engines and was remarshalled, light engines for and off expresses / Semi fasts while locals stopped at the platforms as did expresses waiting for the signalman at the terminus to finish his brew.  The electronics were too complicated and it has never been finished but its a good concept for your sort of area.

As a tweak I would put a small station across the lift out, platforms stop trains falling off!, re arrange the loco depot so the approach is a trailing crossover and its easire to shut, has a shed and has a coaler, but as for the main station, I would just use it as a fiddle yard

Edited March 30, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[Rivercider]

Although I prefer freight shunting I can see the appeal of this.

 

I would use the centre roads as storage (visible fiddle yard)

Station pilot shunts stock to platform, and retires.

Loco comes from shed, attaches and runs several circuits.

Train arrives in platform for loco change, loco detaches and off to shed, fresh loco attach etc.

The bay platforms can work as show if station pilot draws off stock from a westerly arrival and trains then depart from the southern loop platform , Easterly arrivals in southern loop platform.

 

I agree the mpd access is better via a trailing connection.

 

cheers

[BBuckley]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the suggestions they are greatly appreciated. As I’m probably safely below the average age for building a steam era layout (under 25), a lot of the operational ideas you are putting forward are really helping me think about what I want to do with the layout.

 

I have visited a few preserved lines (even had a couple of goes at firing an engine thanks to a friend!), so my limited operational knowledge comes through this, so I hadn’t really thought through the idea of storage and having different trains at different times. I had sort of imagined doing something like what was mentioned above with changing engines like what happened with some of the famous named trains here. If my (fairly limited) research is correct, then the Cambrian Coast Express, and Paddington-Birkenhead trains both usually changed engine at Wolverhampton.

 

I will certainly be looking to include some of the suggestions about curves, facing points, access to the bay platforms and the ideas for the depot from DavidCBroad.

 

I like the idea of a goods yard and want to look to incorporate something, would any of you be able to point me in the direction of some plans to look at for the sort of thing I should aim for?
 

Again thanks for all the input, it is really helpful for someone who doesn’t know a huge amount, just to make it clear, I have built the baseboards (so these dimensions are set), I’ve slowly bought a fair amount of the track (Peco code 75), but I’m glad I’ve still got time to make some changes based on your thoughts!

[DCB]

Goods yard plans are hard to come by.   They came in two main types, Marshalling Yards and Goods yards.

 

Marshalling yards, were where trains were broken up and assembled, wagons would be tripped in from small goods yards, sorted by destination, sorted into order with vacuum brake wagons at the front if the freight was to run fast and sent on often to another marshalling yard sometimes only five miles or so away, Saltley and Bordesley Jct at Birmingham come to mind where they would be sorted for their destination, and sometimes into station order, Some Marshalling yards were one way only, Moreton Cutting nr Didcot was one handling only  East Bound trains. It had a dedicated goods line from Didcot alongside a four track main line, two loops for reception, Two head shunts and 2 sets of around 8 dead end sidings into which trains had to reverse going East. It worked 24 hours breaking up and reassembling trains, for Acton Yard London, and The Southern Via Basingstoke and the LSWR and the SECR line to Redhill among others.  Wagons had to have their grease axleboxes checked by greasers, wheels checked by wheel tappers every so many miles, probably 60 -100 ish'. Wagons were not unloaded or loaded at Marshalling yards

 

Generally wagons were unloaded and loaded at Goods yards, They could be as small as one siding, two was more common, coal traffic usually dominated, many branches were coal only just before complete closure. Generally sidings were widely spaced so carts could turn between tracks, they could do a U turn in not much more than their own length so 20 ft ish not the 50 foot lorries need.  often sidings were paired, two very close together with wide gaps to the next pair.  Generally sidings were very long by model standards twenty wagons at a small branch terminus was quite common.  Often in steam days wagons were not emptied in one day and part loaded wagons had to be shunted out next  day to release empty wagons trapped nearer the buffer stops, something seldom performed on models.  Goods yards were usually served by Pick Up freights, which left and collected full and empty wagons and took them off to marshalling yards.  Usually they ran without continuous brakes so Vacuum and non fitted wagons would be all jumbled up. Sometimes trains were re marshalled at Goods yards or wayside stations, Okehampton SR Mid Devon was one where Plymouth and Padstow trains were remarshalled as Fast and Stopping goods towards Exeter where they were again remarsalled at Exmouth Junction

 

Often Goods sheds were provided, some times holding two or three wagons like Ratio make, some absolutely high 6/8 roads 20 plus wagons long, these needed shunting to change wagons as they were loaded and unloaded, generally far to big to model except as low relief.

 

Sorry to waffle. I like remarshalling goods trains but can't abide shunting planks.

 

 

[BBuckley]

I’ve been having a look for some more information or pictures of goods around Wolverhampton as well as still looking for more goods yard ideas, but without much success.
 

Can anyone suggest any threads on here, books or other websites which would have this sort of information. Particularly around what prototypical formations for some goods trains would would be. I guess there would be a fair amount of coal coming through, but don’t know much more!

 

Thanks again!

[Flying Pig]

1 hour ago, BBuckley said:

Can anyone suggest any threads on here, books or other websites which would have this sort of information. Particularly around what prototypical formations for some goods trains would would be. I guess there would be a fair amount of coal coming through, but don’t know much more!

 

I found these in my bookmarks the other day, but I think there have been others over the years, particularly on coal handling.  Some of them may be on the old forum and no longer available.

 

 

 

 

[Harlequin]

3 hours ago, BBuckley said:

I’ve been having a look for some more information or pictures of goods around Wolverhampton as well as still looking for more goods yard ideas, but without much success.
 

Can anyone suggest any threads on here, books or other websites which would have this sort of information. Particularly around what prototypical formations for some goods trains would would be. I guess there would be a fair amount of coal coming through, but don’t know much more!

 

Thanks again!

 

Two good books that go into a lot of depth are: "GWR Goods Train Working" Volumes 1 and 2 by Tony Atkins, published by Crecy.

 

[BBuckley]

Hi,

I have made some adjustments to my plan to try and make it more operationally interesting as suggested. Both bay platforms are now usable in both directions, I've tried to add what will admittedly be a very small goods yard, but I might still change this again. There are also now 2 longish loops which can be used as goods loops/fiddle yard and I'm going to redesign the mpd area with a trailing point for access. I've also ordered the two books suggested, as reading some of the suggested threads and some other websites, I've been finding the whole subject really interesting!

[The Johnster]

I think the Cambrian Coast Express changed locos at Shrewsbury, where it changed direction anyway, King for Manor or, in it’s final years, Type 4 diesel for BR Standard class 4MT, 75xxx. 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by The Johnster