Wrenn 8F

[Black5]

Now that i`ve almost finished modifying a couple of loco`s that needed looking at, I`m wondering if it`s possible to do the same to an old Wrenn 8F that`s been sitting in it`s box for longer than I can remember.

I stripped the paint off it a long time ago and looking at it again realised there is some nice rivet detail on it that might look quite good when spray painted.

My question is, does anyone know of a suitable chassis kit that might work or is it going to be a scratch build? I realise the dimensions aren`t as accurate as modern models ( slightly narrow on measurements I`ve looked at ) but I still think it might be worth a go. The tender will definitely need a scratch built chassis.

I just wondered if anyone else had tried this and thought it was worth it or not.

 

Many thanks,

Jim.

 

 

[Les Bird]

I too had a Wrenn 8F and, like you, I found a wealth of river detail under the factory paint. I settled for replacing the wheels and filing down the valve gear including reforming the motion bracket. All in all, it was a considerable improvement for relatively little work or expense. I can't post a picture unfortunately as I sold the locomotive some years ago and replaced it with the new Hornby version.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Les Bird

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have a long standing tendre for the original H-D 8F, easily the best of their tender locos, what with the driving wheels being the right size to add to its other felicities, and the only RTR freight heavy then available. And how it pulled, just like the various real freight heavies then working, trundling the coal up to London to make all that so lovely smog.

 

Now, while the current Hornby 8F scores on superior accuracy, quiet running mechanism and all that, where it fails woefully is in traction. Since Hornby are showing no signs of a renewal, when an H-D 8F came up s/h at a sensible price I bought it for the body, which if it could be fitted on the much superior current mechanism would provide the required ballast weight, and thus tractive grunt.

 

Short answer, it fits. Carving a channel to accomodate the brush housing on the side of the Hornby motor, skimming the firebox interior for a little extra width, cutting out the underboiler representation,  slight trimming of the front end of the motion brackets and carving the frame arches over the pony wheel to clear a scale size pony wheel sacrificed about 40g. It drops onto the Hornby mechanism thus modified; and the cleading band representation on the Hornby mechanism underboiler lines up with that on the H-D boiler!

 

It now awaits a new cab floor and backhead in lead and then a whole bunch of detailing salvaged from an old Mainline Jube body (including the smokebox door, the H-D one just knocks out and as it is about the weakest aspect of the H-D model that was a happy finding). Progress now slightly impeded by the wife's desire for a new paved area to accommodate garden furniture brought from her parent's former home. Digging out, breaking hardcore etc. leaves my wrists too achy for modelling jobs, so I just run the timetable instead. (Time's march and all that, the in-laws were about our current age when we bought them this furniture for their Ruby wedding anniversary; how did those near thirty years fly away?)

 

 

[Black5]

Many thanks to Les and 34 for your suggestions, both certainly worth considering.

The weight factor on the Wrenn is amazing. not only the cast body weight but a large piece of lead screwed into the boiler makes it one very heavy model.

Like you Les , I wondered about just changing the wheels etc but also wondered about the possible use of a Comet chassis. It would be nice to lose the intrusion into the cab of the original motor but then, naturally, you make a bigger job of the upgrade. I`m sure I have a set of tender wheels somewhere so that shouldn`t be too much of a problem.

Best of luck with the paving 34, I have to say, I thought I`d get a lot more modelling done  during this lock down but strangely, I`ve only just found the enthusiasm again after, like you, doing other things first.

 

Many thanks to you both,

Jim.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

33 minutes ago, Black5 said:

... I wondered about just changing the wheels etc ...

I don't know how wide the Wrenn chassis block is, but one of the ancient disappointments with the H-D 8F is that while fitting all flanged H-D wheels is easy enough, straight line operation is then about all that is possible with this done. Slimmer profiled kit wheels would probably allow larger radius curves to be negotiated, especially if jointed coupling rods were substituted...

[Black5]

Agree with you 34, many checks will have to be made before deciding which route to take. Iv`e got a couple of spare motors so they will come into the  equation when deciding which way to go. I don`t mind trying a scratch built chassis, it`s more a question of getting bits and pieces together to see how things will turn out. Anchor points between chassis and body would be the first thing to check I think and carefully tidying up the cab end.

Looks like it will be a challenge.

Many thanks,

Jim.

[The Johnster]

Like 34, I've always had a fondness for the old HD/Wrenn 8F; something about the die cast body and the rather overstated rive detail speaks of the brutality and presence of the real 8F, a heavy freight thug of a loco. No other model, however scale and well detailed, has ever equalled it, though it is a difficult and subjective thing to quantify and describe.  The worst feature is the Hornby Dublo ringfield motor, which occupies the cab and prevents any detail in, or even daylight through, it.  

 

My go to for upgrading would be the current Hornby mech, especially as 34 says it fits, a good slow runner and nicely detailed, leaving a completely clear cab.  The only thing wrong with this is that the sides and roof are overscale thick.  I'm surprised that 34 finds haulage 'woefully inadequate'. as it is fundamentally similar to my 42xx which will pull the side off a house, but I would imagine that the heavy die cast HD/Wrenn body tooling will improve matters, and you've got a running chassis with plenty of detail as well as a clear cab.  New handrails and knobs, smokebox door, cab detail and glazing, better buffers and drawgear, perhaps a new Stanier whistle and safety valve, and real coal in the tender, and I would say you'd have a powerful 8F full of character.  I'd be wary of using it alongside the modern Hornby, which just doesn't look the same at all.  Sometimes it is better to model the 'feel' of a loco rather than dead scale representation, a bit of an impressionist approach but nonetheless valid IMHO.

 

If the Hornby's performance isn't what you want, then the Comet is the obvious second choice, but you won't be able to run it around setrack curves.  

 

 

[DCB]

The best chassis for the Wrenn 8F body is probably the Wenn 8F chassis. 

A comet chassis should be good, but make sure you have plenty of motor power. There isn't that much room in that thick die cast body shell and that gives two issues, not enough room to squeeze a big motor in and poor cooling.   I have been having a nightmare with a Comet Chassis under a K's cast GWR 28XX 2-8-0. See  Comet Chassis Woes.

The Wrenn 8F gets a lot of its traction from a big lead weight fitted in the smokebox end of the body, plenty of weight evenly distributed, my Wrenn 8F pulls 50 H/D wagons where Bachmann WD struggles with 15,  On my 8F with its close coupled Mainline tender and glazed cab windows the Ringfield motor isn't that noticeable and it certainly doesn't draw attention to itself by slipping  Just a shame about the smoke box door handles.  Mine also has an improved motion bracket.   I had thought about putting flanged Romford tyres on the centre wheels so the info above is useful.

Incidentally our Hornby 42XX and 72XX had to have lead stuffed in every available space to pull our standard 22 X H/D wagon coal train which was previously an exclusively 8F turn.  Out of the box they pulled about 15.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[Black5]

Thanks Johnster and DavidCBroad,

One of the first things I had looked at was re-wheeling with better wheels but thought by the time I`d done that I might as well look at changing the chassis. You`ve all made valid points which have been very useful.

I`m not worried about pulling power as such as my layout is an end to end MPD, so basically is a diorama with some movement. I enjoy the challenge of making or improving things.

One of my loco`s is the NE version of the 8F and that will go round the tightest curve on the layout. I should say that the layout is DCC so I`m not sure if the that will be another challenge with the Ringfield motor. As it is, on DC , it fair gallops along due to the gearing.

So, a number of things that you have all suggested that I hadn`t thought of and my thanks for that.

Regards.

Jim.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

...  I'm surprised that 34 finds haulage 'woefully inadequate'...

I have 'special needs'. An 8F has to restart reliably with a circa 2.5kg train all standing on a I in 80.  Out of the box both the Bachmann 9F and Heljan O2 have the grunt required, good and heavy, and Hornby's O1 only needed the flywheel removed to make space for lead to join them. Bachmann's WD was far too light, but replacing all the mazak ballast with lead fully exploits the very good drive.

 

Unfortunately it isn't possible to do the same with the Hornby 8F because the rather clumsy gearbox takes up too much space, and there's less space inside to start with, because of the tapering. Draping it with code 7 sheet lead proved that made up to the 450g as the WD is, the Hornby drive was up to the job as the wheels would still slip when held back. A metal body from the H-D or Wrenn 8F provides most of the extra mass for the target weight and there's still space to add more lead as required to trim the model for optimum positioning of the point of balance in the centre of the coupled wheelbase.

 

It will be the only Stanier 8F on the layout, painted LMR's standard grey-brown livery with the cleanest thing on it the coal, so nothing to compare it to as a model. I am more of an impressionist than an 'everything dead right' type anyway, and the H-D 8F made the right impression even with two prominent unflanged wheels...