Signalling Placement Help Please

[Guest Half-full]

Hi All

 

I'm after some help with signal placement if available?

 

My in-planning layout depicts an urban island platform station, a small goods yard with headshunt, as below...

 

 

The mainline starts off as a bi-directional single track from the west, splitting into 2 at the island platform and continuing as a double track mainline to the east.  From the platform 2 line, the headshunt for the goods yard branches off, this will necessitate trains from the west stopping on P2 and either the yard shunter coming out to pick the wagons up, or the train reversing into the headshunt to drop the wagons off.  In addition the double tracked section will still be bi-directional (assuming branches peeling off nearby east)

 

I must admit that I've never paid much attention to signalling before but I would like to get this semi-right!

 

The signals I'd like to use are colour-light and the era and location is 1980's Midland

 

Many thanks In advance

 

HF

[Happy Hippo]

I won't try to attempt to comment on the signalling, but the track plan really needs expanding so we can see the off scene portions as well.

 

As you have an island platform, I am presuming that you will use P1 and P2 to provide some form off scene run round facility for your freight trains.  If not then you will tie yourself in knots trying to shunt that yard the way you have described.  It's not impossible but is certainly awkward.

 

Alternatively have you considered a crossover at the end of the head shunt which would give you a loop?

 

The other question is what sort of freight do you envisage because I think BR were busy wrapping up their Speedlink services in the 80's as they were not really bothered unless they were block trains.

 

 

[Guest Half-full]

58 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I won't try to attempt to comment on the signalling, but the track plan really needs expanding so we can see the off scene portions as well.

 

As you have an island platform, I am presuming that you will use P1 and P2 to provide some form off scene run round facility for your freight trains.  If not then you will tie yourself in knots trying to shunt that yard the way you have described.  It's not impossible but is certainly awkward.

 

Alternatively have you considered a crossover at the end of the head shunt which would give you a loop?

 

The other question is what sort of freight do you envisage because I think BR were busy wrapping up their Speedlink services in the 80's as they were not really bothered unless they were block trains.

 

 

The layout will be continuous run, no particular run round as the train loco will deposit the train for the yard pilot to shunt (cement and general merchandise).  The plan is based on a mirror image of Lymebrook Yard

 

The yard is rather small for a dedicated shunter, but rule 1 applies.  The layout is set mid 80's to mid 1991 at the latest ie demise of Speedlink.

 

As the setting is urban, I'd dont know if I'd get away with 3-aspect signals.  Current thinking is...

 

Left to right

3-aspect with feather indicator for access to both platform lines

Ground signal for the headshunt access to platform 2

 

Right to left

Ground signal for access to the headshunt from platform 2

3-aspect for access to the 'main' line from platform 2

3-aspect for access to the 'main' line from platform 1

 

HF

[DavidBird]

On 13/04/2020 at 21:37, Half-full said:

... 

In addition the double tracked section will still be bi-directional (assuming branches peeling off nearby east)

...

 

Can you expand on that please? Do you mean two parallel single lines or proper double track to another junction? Or a single lead junction to a branch off only the red line?  It's all relevant to the signalling on the area you've shown.

Edited April 17, 2020 by DavidBird

[Guest Half-full]

14 minutes ago, DavidBird said:

 

Can you expand on that please? Do you mean two parallel single lines or proper double track to another junction? Or a single lead junction to a branch off only the red line?  It's all relevant to the signalling on the area you've shown.

HI David

 

Yes, proper double line section to the next (imaginary junction)

 

HF

[DavidBird]

How far is it to the next off-scene junction?  Is it just off the other ends of the platform, or more than a signal-section away?

 

How long is the single-line section to the west? Is just a short section, for example over a viaduct or tunnel (think S&C over Ribblehead viaduct or Southern Hastings line through the tunnels), or is it a long section to the next crossing loop?  Has it always been single track?

Edited April 17, 2020 by DavidBird

[Guest Half-full]

1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

How far is it to the next off-scene junction?  Is it just off the other ends of the platform, or more than a signal-section away?

 

How long is the single-line section to the west? Is just a short section, for example over a viaduct or tunnel (think S&C over Ribblehead viaduct or Southern Hastings line through the tunnels), or is it a long section to the next crossing loop?  Has it always been single track?

Im imagining a couple of signal sections before the next junction to the east, and to the west the same.  Westerly it was originally double tracked, but now singled.

 

The layout will represent an urban line, with local passenger services approaching a main town/city station (to the east).  The line is also used as a diversionary route for long distance services too.

 

HF 

[DavidBird]

This is what I'd do. 

[DavidBird]

You could simplify it further by doing away with the gpl signals and operating the connection into the sidings by a remote released ground frame, the gf operator would give handsignals to train drivers.

[DavidBird]

If you haven't got space for a trap point on the exit from the sidings, make the points to the 1st siding controlled, and have a yellow gpl signal. This tells a driver approaching it that it can be passed when "on", provided the points are set to the route which doesn't apply - ie. can be passed into the sidings but not out onto the main line.

[Guest Half-full]

Many, many thanks for your help on this David, very much appreciated.

 

I'll maybe go with the GPL's for access to/from the yard.  

 

Thanks again 

 

HF

[DavidBird]

You're welcome.  I'd go for making the 1st siding as the trap for the yard, with a yellow gpl, as the real railway - and your model - would save money by combining the functions of the trap with the 1st siding.  But that depends on your exact layout.  Remember if you're going for a separate trap, it can be just a pair of point blades, dropping anything onto the ballast, or a full turnout leading to a bufferstop.

 

Also, I'd go for semaphore signals, as on the model they can be seen operating from both front and back...

Edited April 27, 2020 by DavidBird