Oh, sh....I mean oh, sugar!

[The Johnster]

I have acquired John Hodges' exellent 'Tondu Valleys - Ogmore, Garw, Gilfach Goch and Porthcawl Branches' book, and it has thrown up one or two issues regarding stock for Cwmdimbath, especially the TVR auto sets.  There were 3 of these twin sets, gangwayed within the twins, and all of them were allocated to Tondu in their final years prior to withdrawal.  I am going to have to have one; they are seminal to Tondu operations, and this means scratchbuilding.  I've never scratchbuilt a coach before, and now I have to do two of them. 

 

Don't get excited yet, gents; a good bit of research will be needed before any metal, or plastic, is cut, and I don't even know the basic dimensions yet.  Assuming that the Taff used off the peg bogies for these sets, and that at least cosmetic outside frame castings for them are available somewhere (perhaps they were Fox, I know Roxey do those), I will give it a shot, though.  These trailers were radically different in appearance from any GW type, or from the Cardiff Railway sets which were not dissimilar in appearance to GW trailers with bolection mouldings, so I won't even be able to kit bash with ends or roofs.  They were flat ended with 3 small windows much like a GW slip coach, but to a very different profile.  The ends were recessesed and entered through double folding doors, and I believe there was a driving cab only at the 'outer' end unlike the GW Plymouth area gangwayed twin sets which could be driven from the 'inner' vehicle, which had a bell to prove it though I doubt that they were ever used in this mode.

 

I'm at the bottom of a precipitous learning curve.  The plan, such as it is for the moment, is to initially establish the basic dimensions and cut a floor out of reasonbly thick and solid brass shed, which will be the structural basis of the model, and take it from there with glue and solder.  The thick brass will impart some ballast as well.  What have I let myself in for... 

 

Photos in Hodge confirm that Diagram N no.37, which I've wishlisted for frequently here, and Diagram A10 no.128 were also at Tondu in the early 50s, and unless somebody rescues me with an RTR or kit I'm gonna have to tackle these as well, but at least I can use ends, bogies, steps, and possibly other components from existing RTR or kits for some help with these.  Lewis suggests that 128 may have been in 1934 shirtbutton livery in the caption to a photo of it in his book at Craven Arms post withdrawal 1954 and in very poor external condition, and the photo in Hodge shows a dirty two colour livery, so this may be right.

 

Wish me luck, I'll need it!!!!

 

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

If you can find a drawing, Allen Doherty (sp)  at Worsley Works would be able to etch it for you, otherwise an appeal to one of the wizards with silhouette cutters on here may be able to help.

 

Allen was very reasonable when he etched 2 sets of three car Class 303/AM3 electric units for me a couple of years ago.

 

His kits are scratch aids, rather than fully worked up, but could give you a head start.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[Paul H Vigor]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I have acquired John Hodges' exellent 'Tondu Valleys - Ogmore, Garw, Gilfach Goch and Porthcawl Branches' book, and it has thrown up one or two issues regarding stock for Cwmdimbath, especially the TVR auto sets.  There were 3 of these twin sets, gangwayed within the twins, and all of them were allocated to Tondu in their final years prior to withdrawal.  I am going to have to have one; they are seminal to Tondu operations, and this means scratchbuilding.  I've never scratchbuilt a coach before, and now I have to do two of them. 

 

Don't get excited yet, gents; a good bit of research will be needed before any metal, or plastic, is cut, and I don't even know the basic dimensions yet.  Assuming that the Taff used off the peg bogies for these sets, and that at least cosmetic outside frame castings for them are available somewhere (perhaps they were Fox, I know Roxey do those), I will give it a shot, though.  These trailers were radically different in appearance from any GW type, or from the Cardiff Railway sets which were not dissimilar in appearance to GW trailers with bolection mouldings, so I won't even be able to kit bash with ends or roofs.  They were flat ended with 3 small windows much like a GW slip coach, but to a very different profile.  The ends were recessesed and entered through double folding doors, and I believe there was a driving cab only at the 'outer' end unlike the GW Plymouth area gangwayed twin sets which could be driven from the 'inner' vehicle, which had a bell to prove it though I doubt that they were ever used in this mode.

 

I'm at the bottom of a precipitous learning curve.  The plan, such as it is for the moment, is to initially establish the basic dimensions and cut a floor out of reasonbly thick and solid brass shed, which will be the structural basis of the model, and take it from there with glue and solder.  The thick brass will impart some ballast as well.  What have I let myself in for... 

 

Photos in Hodge confirm that Diagram N no.37, which I've wishlisted for frequently here, and Diagram A10 no.128 were also at Tondu in the early 50s, and unless somebody rescues me with an RTR or kit I'm gonna have to tackle these as well, but at least I can use ends, bogies, steps, and possibly other components from existing RTR or kits for some help with these.  Lewis suggests that 128 may have been in 1934 shirtbutton livery in the caption to a photo of it in his book at Craven Arms post withdrawal 1954 and in very poor external condition, and the photo in Hodge shows a dirty two colour livery, so this may be right.

 

Wish me luck, I'll need it!!!!

 

 

 

 Pob lwc to The Johnster in 'diff from Paul in Pontardawe!

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, Ian Smeeton said:

If you can find a drawing, Allen Doherty (sp)  at Worsley Works would be able to etch it for you, otherwise an appeal to one of the wizards with silhouette cutters on here may be able to help.

 

Allen was very reasonable when he etched 2 sets of three car Class 303/AM3 electric units for me a couple of years ago.

 

His kits are scratch aids, rather than fully worked up, but could give you a head start.

 

Regards

 

Ian

Thanks Ian, this is certainly worth looking into.  If I can get etches for the sides and ends I'm halfway there.

 

30 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

Pob lwc to The Johnster in 'diff from Paul in Pontardawe!

 Diolch yn fawr, Paul yn 'Y Bont'.

[The Johnster]

Downloaded the other John Hodges Tondu book yesterday and haven't read it properly yet, but a scan has revealed a TV set in unlined maroon, painted Caerphilly 1956, so now I've got a choice of liveries.  Also 4404 in unlined black 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Egyptian Serif livery, and a photo showing 3100 at Abergwynfi, according to the caption in 1961 but I think this means 1951 as the loco was withdrawn in 1958 (to be replaced by 4144) and the stock is in GW livery.  My general principle is that, if it went to Abergwynfi, it went to Cwmdimbath as well.  Too much knowledge is an expensive thing, though 3100 can proabably use a Comet 43xx/5101 chassis with spacers to get the buffers the right height, and I'm fairly confident of being able to build her out of an old Hornby 5101 body with a no.4 boiler and new cab.

 

But we'll concentrate on the TV sets and A10 for now; I've enough on with an E147 Comet B set build and a Southeastern chassis for a Wills 1854.  And the wallet will need recovery time from the double hit of the Hornby 5101 and the Baccy 94xx which will not be far off now with any luck.

[Philou]

Good luck with that, Johnster, and a Merry Christmas to you (and others that may read this thread).

 

Philip

 

Joyeux Noël!!

[The Johnster]

Merci beaucoup, Philipe, et Joyeux Noel/Nadolig Llawen. 

 

As well as those already mentioned, Tondu also had allocations of examples of Diagram J, a 59' saloon type with no centre door/vesibule, which if I want it will have to be another scratchbuild, and A2 no 3338, which is a Clifton Downs driving trailer; Roxey do a kit for this one, and I'm delighted; it's a very interesting and attractive coach that I would like very much on the layout.  Scratchbuilding the TV set, N, A10, and J (this might represent the order in which they are built) is probably enough modelling to last me out!  The distinctive ones are the TV and Clifton Downs,

 

Can't pin down any evidence of A31s at Tondu ever, so these somewhat crude K's coaches are likely to eventually be dismantled to donate parts (especially underframe bits, ends, and bogies) to N,  A10, and J scratches.  They're not a disaster as a loss, and have given me good practice in building auto trailer interiors.  An A43 to partner my A44/C66 is being built for me in Oz by Iain D, and is near completion. 

 

There were no first class coaches at Tondu, so my Hornby Collett 57' compo is an anachronism and might have to be rebuilt as something else, which will be a shame because it's a lovely model. For now it is a Rule 1 interloper on the excuse that first class is required for the daily Tremains workman's, as managerial staff board the train further down the valley.  It then works with it's equally but less obviously anachronistic BT with the compartments locked out of use.  With a bit of work on the Airfix/Hornby A30s (which is what they are numbered as and what I regard them as) and possible A27s or A28s kitbashed from further A30s, the Comet E147 B set, and a few odd Comets here and there, I should eventually have sufficient and reasonably accurate properly numbered stock for the Tondu Valleys. 

 

As there was only one Valleys platform at Bridgend, the working was arranged so that trains from Valleys were allowed in to the platform together, and the loco of the second one to arrive uncoupled from it's train and coupled to the one in front (autos excpepted) then the third loco to the second train and so on, with the first train's loco running around to haul the last arrival back out.  This meant that a variety of locos and stock appeared during the working day at each Valley terminus, and if there was an auto in the line up at Bridgend that probably left for a destination different than that which it had arrived from as well.

 

Auto working did not start at Tondu until 1953 and the arrival of newly auto fitted 4575s, and prior to this the Garw and Ogmore Vale train ran combined to Brynmenyn where they split outside the station and the Ogmore loco backed on to it's train to draw it into the Ogmore platform (the station was in the V of the junction).  A similar method was used at Blackmill with the Gilfach Goch service which ended in 1930 but was revived to Tremains during the war, so my position is that Cwmdimbath trains did the same at Blackmill, another station in a V, pre 1953, so, while a loco might be allox Cwmdimbath passenger duty for a day, the stock will change because of the way the trains combined on the return to Bridgend, with the 'branch' train arriving at Blackmill first and it's loco uncoupling and drawing clear for the 'main' train to draw forward and set back on to the other portion.  These portions were 2 coach loco hauled sets.

 

All of which requires variety during the working day up at Cwmdimbath, which is all to the good and a brilliant reason to model one of the Tondu termini.  The 'other' working, over time variously terminating at Abergwynfi, Blaengwynfi on the R & SB, Treherbert, and Cwmmer Afan (by which time it was worked by a Class 121/2 bubble car), served the population centre of Maesteg and ran to 3 coaches, meaning a sandwich if it was an auto.  It was the change from Aber to Blaengwynfi that allowed 64xxx panniers to be used on this service, but that did not happen until 1960, outside my timeframe. 

 

A38s arrived at Tondu during my timeframe, though; of course these are no problem being produced by Bachmann. 

 

I have a choice with the TVR sets in that the first set allocated was in crimson/cream livery but replaced in 1956 by a freshly painted at Caerphilly unlined maroon set, which looks very smart in photos, a livery that suited these distinctive trailers.  They were ostensibly for the Porthcawl branch but 'got about', and probably visited all the Tondu valleys.  Interestingly, photos show that they did not have the warning gong that was fitted to other GW driving auto trailers, including absorbed constituents, unless it was hidden behind the buffer beam which seems pointless.  Any explanation would be interesting; they were certainly used on auto services having been converted post grouping to the GW system from the TVR's overhead rope and pulley system (love to see a working DCC model of that!).

 

Happy xmas to all my readers, and a prosperous, happy, and vaccinated New Year.  Stay safe!

[andrewnummelin]

Extensive details including drawings of the TVR coaches may be found in John Lewis's "Great Western Auto Trailers - Part Two Post Grouping and Absorbed Vehicles", Wild Swan 1995 ISBN 1874103259.

 

I've always thought these were attractive looking vehicles. Have fun modelling the TVR control gear!

 

Anyone interested in these should really join the Welsh Railways Research Circle... https://wrrc.org.uk/index.php

 

Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

(WRRC Secretary)

 

[The Johnster]

Good idea; I'll join as soon as I can get Adobe or it's replacement to function for me!  I'm aware of John Lewis's bood and have volume 1, and am trying to get hold of vol 2 but it is out of print and £75 on 'Bay.  I'll need it for the basic dimensions and internal layout, as well as more info, so a bullet must be bitten! 

 

My modelling is taking a somewhat more serious direction with this putative project, and WRRC membership will be an undoubted advantage.  They are attractive trailers, radically different from the GW/Cardiff Rly look,but (fortunately for me)) the GW converted them to their own system, so I don't have to attempt the overhead cableways that the Taff used for auto working.  The sides are very prominently glass with minimal pillars and I suspect the structure will have to be clear plastic or perhaps even real glass (I once successfuly used microscope slides for the glass in the canopy of a Club Bute Road layout's station) for rigidity and clarity.  The ventilators are shown in photos to be horizontally centrally hinged, and I intend to model some in the open position to show this. 

 

I am tending at the moment to favour Tondu's second set, 2508/6423 in plain maroon livery as painted Caerphilly 1956 and in service at Tondu until withdrawal just over a year later, pictured in John Hodge's Tondu Valleys book at Bridgend with 5545 and looking very smart; the maroon livery suited these trailers!