RobinofLoxley Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Today should have been a good day. Although my layout is half built, and thats just the baseboards, my white z21arrived yesterday and as I need to test it somehow I decided to start my first conversion so I could check things were working on programming track at least. Now I have only one DCC ready loco that I know of, (unless I find one of the Bachmanns I have never dismantled has a plate inside), this being a Conyngham Hall 32-001. At first things got better. No 6937 started the day as a non-runner, but I worked out and fixed the quartering problem that had somehow just 'happened'. So the body was off anyway, lets have a look, ah, there's the blanking plate. That comes off easily, the decoder (Zimo MX600) will fit the 8-pin socket, I have even bought the right one. Now, the problem is, the motor fits so tight into the available space there isnt room to locate the decoder board anywhere. Well there is a nice space where a removable weight sits in a slot, held in by a piece of insulating tape (no part number for that on the Service sheet), beyond the motor, but 1) the cables arent long enough and 2) there isnt the space between the motor and body to run the cables anyway. So what I thought should be a nice simple task isn't. So I guess folks have to locate the board in the tender? There is space there, and a possible cable route into the tender but nothing easy out of the loco body. There may be space alongside the tender drawbar but I'm not sure. So how has anyone else sorted out one of these? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Welcome to the wonderful and weird world of DCC. Job #1 when fitting a decoder to a loco: find space for it to sit... Is there space for it in the boiler barrel/smokebox area? If you could extend the wires for the decoder, can you fit it in there somewhere? I had to do this type of arrangement for my Hornby 72xx. Putting a decoder in the tender is a tricky business, with a need to a) enable the wires to be detached when required to remove the tender and b) disguise the cables so that they don't stand out. My Hornby King and my Heljan 47xx have tender decoders, but they came built that way, with black wires between loco and tender and a plug and socket arrangement to enable detaching the tender. Personally, I would only place the decoder in the tender as a last resort and I would seek out an appropriate plug and socket mechanism as a first step. One other thought is that there are some decoders which directly fit onto the 8-pin socket, essentially replacing the blanking plate - if you had one of those, would it fit? e.g. https://www.dccsupplies.com/cat-196/8-pin-direct-decoders.htm Yours, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted February 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2021 If I remember rightly the decoder is intended to go in the slot you identified, replacing the removable weight, and there are some small notches or hooks to allow you to route the cables back to the socket. (Along the left hand side of the motor???) I'm pretty sure when I did my Hall there were no big problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said: Welcome to the wonderful and weird world of DCC. Job #1 when fitting a decoder to a loco: find space for it to sit... Is there space for it in the boiler barrel/smokebox area? If you could extend the wires for the decoder, can you fit it in there somewhere? I had to do this type of arrangement for my Hornby 72xx. Putting a decoder in the tender is a tricky business, with a need to a) enable the wires to be detached when required to remove the tender and b) disguise the cables so that they don't stand out. My Hornby King and my Heljan 47xx have tender decoders, but they came built that way, with black wires between loco and tender and a plug and socket arrangement to enable detaching the tender. Personally, I would only place the decoder in the tender as a last resort and I would seek out an appropriate plug and socket mechanism as a first step. One other thought is that there are some decoders which directly fit onto the 8-pin socket, essentially replacing the blanking plate - if you had one of those, would it fit? e.g. https://www.dccsupplies.com/cat-196/8-pin-direct-decoders.htm Yours, Mike. As long as the decoder were no larger than the blanking plate itself; thanks that worth checking out. Looking at the pin position of that one i dont think it will fit though, pending actual measurement of the space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BromsMods Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said: One other thought is that there are some decoders which directly fit onto the 8-pin socket, essentially replacing the blanking plate - if you had one of those, would it fit? e.g. https://www.dccsupplies.com/cat-196/8-pin-direct-decoders.htm Looking at the TCS DP2X-UKA decoder shown in this link, it isn't! The actual decoder shown is a DP-2XA, where the pins go across the decoder. The DP2X-UK has pins which are aligned with the long axis of the decoder and should be a good fit for any loco which has the DCC socket in line with the chassis/body. The DP2X-UK as also available for just £20 plus postage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Harlequin said: If I remember rightly the decoder is intended to go in the slot you identified, replacing the removable weight, and there are some small notches or hooks to allow you to route the cables back to the socket. (Along the left hand side of the motor???) I'm pretty sure when I did my Hall there were no big problems. I had totally failed to notice the channel. Weight out, and eventually decoder in. Had to remove a small plate holding something electrical in place in order to get all the cable through. Very very tight getting the body back on again, even so. Seems successful, will test tomorrow. Many thanks. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, BromsMods said: Looking at the TCS DP2X-UKA decoder shown in this link, it isn't! So, is this a case of lies, damned lies and web pages....? . Thanks for picking up on this, John. I certainly was not vouching for any particular decoder in my posting - just indicating that there are such beasts in existence. I've not yet had the need to use one, thankfully, since the choice is somewhat limited - but when it comes to decoders, some locos have a painfully small amount of space available. I suppose it is this that has led to some modern designs placing the decoder in the tender. Yours, Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share Posted February 10, 2021 57 minutes ago, BromsMods said: Looking at the TCS DP2X-UKA decoder shown in this link, it isn't! The actual decoder shown is a DP-2XA, where the pins go across the decoder. The DP2X-UK has pins which are aligned with the long axis of the decoder and should be a good fit for any loco which has the DCC socket in line with the chassis/body. The DP2X-UK as also available for just £20 plus postage. Would have been correct solution but I didnt need it, this time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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