Train Operations At Matlock Bath

[animotion]

I am doing some research on Matlock Bath station with the intention of maybe modelling it in Midland Railway days. I came across this photo

in the book 'Midland Through The Peak' by Brian Radford and it has perplexed me. The caption states that it is a Midland Compound that is waiting to complete its return journey to London having dropped off its day trippers at the station. As far as I'm aware the station never had a turntable so how did the loco turn its self around. The only explanation I can think of is it journeyed up to Matlock to use the turntable there or it left St Pancras tender first and used the cross overs at the station to shunt the train on to the other side of the tracks ready for the return journey. I have also include a track diagram

 

from Bill Hudson's book 'Through Limestone Hills' to illustrate how the last train movement could have been achieved. This was a main line station and I doubt that a train would have been allowed to sit in the station for a long period of time. Any suggestions on how this train movement could have happened would be of interest.

[beast66606]

Loco + train arrives in the Manchester platform

Pax off

Loco + train set back into the siding

Loco leaves coaches in sidings and runs forward back into the platform

Loco crosses over and heads back to Ambergate where it turns on the triangle

Loco retuns, tender first, to Matlock bath and joins the London end of the train  (after a shunt)

Loco pulls train out of sidings then pushes back into London platform

Pax on

Train leaves.

[pharrc20]

Would the train not have gone up the short distance to Rowsley and the engine turned on the turntable at the shed there? Then stabled, watered, coaled up etc. before returning back at right time to Matlock Bath? Pretty sure there was a turntable put there now restored by Peak Rail.

Cheers Paul

[animotion]

9 hours ago, pharrc20 said:

Would the train not have gone up the short distance to Rowsley and the engine turned on the turntable at the shed there? Then stabled, watered, coaled up etc. before returning back at right time to Matlock Bath? Pretty sure there was a turntable put there now restored by Peak Rail.

Cheers Paul

My mistake I thought there was a turntable at Matlock being such a large goods yard but there isn't one. I agree with you that Rowsley would have been a better place to turn the engine where it could have coaled up and taken on water for the journey back to London. I would have imagined that it would have taken the coaches with it as there were ample spaces there to dock the coaches while the engine was turned. I can't see how it could have left the coaches at Matlock Bath in the sidings as it would have blocked the entrance into some of the sidings unless it was only pulling maybe a few coaches.

[beast66606]

3 hours ago, animotion said:

My mistake I thought there was a turntable at Matlock being such a large goods yard but there isn't one. I agree with you that Rowsley would have been a better place to turn the engine where it could have coaled up and taken on water for the journey back to London. I would have imagined that it would have taken the coaches with it as there were ample spaces there to dock the coaches while the engine was turned. I can't see how it could have left the coaches at Matlock Bath in the sidings as it would have blocked the entrance into some of the sidings unless it was only pulling maybe a few coaches.

 

I answered based on your supposition about lack of turntables, I didn't spend time researching where they existed or for that matter accommodation space in sidings, I gave you a scenario which would work - blocking sidings is irrelevant if there was no traffic for them.

 

Edited as I was a bit OTT

Edited February 18, 2021 by beast66606

[animotion]

10 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

 

I answered based on your supposition about lack of turntables, I wasn't going to spend several hours researching where they existed or for that matter accommodation space in sidings, I gave you a scenario which would work - blocking sidings is irrelevant if there was no traffic for them - never mind I won't bother trying to help in future as you can't even be bothered to click a thanks button which takes less than a second but expect others to spend a lot more of their own time answering you, when you apparently already knew the answer.

Sorry for not ticking the thank you box and I did appreciate your response. I misinterpreted the caption which actually stated the train was going to Matlock after dropping of passengers at Matlock Bath. I did not already know the answer and was just questioning your answer and posing another scenario. As it turns out we were both wrong according to another forum. The train left the coaches at Matlock  headed down to Rowsley to take on coal and water then headed back tender first to Matlock.

[beast66606]

10 hours ago, pharrc20 said:

Would the train not have gone up the short distance to Rowsley and the engine turned on the turntable at the shed there? Then stabled, watered, coaled up etc. before returning back at right time to Matlock Bath? Pretty sure there was a turntable put there now restored by Peak Rail.

Cheers Paul

 

The photo does not appear to show a fully coaled loco - maybe the loco only worked Derby - Matlock Bath - Derby and just took on some water locally. Which would make my suggestion workable. Anyway, we will never know for certain. (Added - the OP has found info on another forum which suggests the loco did go to Rowsley)

Edited February 18, 2021 by beast66606
added note

[Poor Old Bruce]

12 hours ago, animotion said:

I am doing some research on Matlock Bath station with the intention of maybe modelling it in Midland Railway days. I came across this photo

in the book 'Midland Through The Peak' by Brian Radford and it has perplexed me. The caption states that it is a Midland Compound that is waiting to complete its return journey to London having dropped off its day trippers at the station. As far as I'm aware the station never had a turntable so how did the loco turn its self around. The only explanation I can think of is it journeyed up to Matlock to use the turntable there or it left St Pancras tender first and used the cross overs at the station to shunt the train on to the other side of the tracks ready for the return journey. I have also include a track diagram

 

The photo caption does NOT state that the train "is ready to complete its return journey to London". It says it is "ready to complete its journey" i.e. to Matlock. Matlock and Matlock Bath are two different stations. The logical course of events would then be for the whole train to go forward to Rowsley for stabling and servicing ready for the return journey. There would be no need for any tender-first running at all.

[animotion]

11 minutes ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

The photo caption does NOT state that the train "is ready to complete its return journey to London". It says it is "ready to complete its journey" i.e. to Matlock. Matlock and Matlock Bath are two different stations. The logical course of events would then be for the whole train to go forward to Rowsley for stabling and servicing ready for the return journey. There would be no need for any tender-first running at all.

Yes your right looking at the map of the line. So it would have carried on its journey to Matlock and dropped off its passengers after which it would have gone to Rowsley.

[Poor Old Bruce]

22 minutes ago, animotion said:

So it would have carried on its journey to Matlock and dropped off its passengers after which it would have gone to Rowsley.

 

Yes