HO scale track

[TravisM]

Another stupid question time.  Did SNCF have any track differences to what the UK have.  I ask because Peco have Code 100, Code 75 in flat bottom and bullhead and for the US modeller, Code 70 with North American sleeper spacing.  Would Peco Code 75 be accurate?

[mdvle]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

Another stupid question time.  Did SNCF have any track differences to what the UK have.  I ask because Peco have Code 100, Code 75 in flat bottom and bullhead and for the US modeller, Code 70 with North American sleeper spacing.  Would Peco Code 75 be accurate?

 

Can't help with your SNCF question, but for North American track Peco has their Code 83 line and the beginnings of a Code 70 line - all that is available so far in Code 70 is the flex track with some turnouts promised but not yet delivered (having been announced 2+ years ago).

[TravisM]

9 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

Can't help with your SNCF question, but for North American track Peco has their Code 83 line and the beginnings of a Code 70 line - all that is available so far in Code 70 is the flex track with some turnouts promised but not yet delivered (having been announced 2+ years ago).

Sorry, I meant Code 83 as well as the limited amount of Code 70.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[Pacific231G]

On 26/03/2021 at 00:17, jools1959 said:

Another stupid question time.  Did SNCF have any track differences to what the UK have.  I ask because Peco have Code 100, Code 75 in flat bottom and bullhead and for the US modeller, Code 70 with North American sleeper spacing.  Would Peco Code 75 be accurate?

No. It's a very good question as there's a common misapprehension that "foreign" track i s all totally different from British.

 

French PW practice is closer to British than say German practice and, of course, very different from North American practice. There are some differences. SNCF adopted flat bottom (Vignoles) rail as standard far earlier than did BR and it was normally fixed to the sleepers with track screws rather than clips. For bull head rail - which was quite widely used by all of France's major pre-nationalisation companies apart from the Nord and the Est- the chairs and the screws fixing them to sleepers are much the same as you'd find in Britain. French modellers of such railways have long used SMP  bullhead track and Peco now markets its new BH track as voie double champignon in France.    

 

Peco Streamline is quite simply H0 scale track (Peco are very clear about that) rather than some compromise based on trying to make track to the wrong gauge in 4mm scale look right.  I'm also pretty sure it was based on SNCF's main line track and, though Code 100 was too heavy Code 75, is a tad light for the most modern main line track though fine for earlier types . French modellers buy both by the bucket load and for "finescale" layouts Peco code 75 Streamline seems to be the most commonly used.

 

Common sleeper dimensions are pretty much the same throughout Western Europe and the length and width of Peco's sleepers scale out well in H0. However, British sleepers were traditionally set at around 30 inch spacing centre to centre (though narrower at track joints) while SNCF's standard spacing for fast main lines has been 600mm for a very long time and that's what Peco Streamline scales out at in 1:87 scale. Track on sidings and secondary lines generally has wider sleeper spacing and, for my own H0 layout, I made a simple jig to space out the sleepers in the sidings .  It being a branch line I probably should have modified all the traclwork but I'm far too lazy. 

One big difference, and a useful one for modelling, is that, with generally more space to play with,  French trackwork seems to have been based more on standard discrete turnouts, crossings and slips, and even in quite complex formations seem to have made less use of bespoke pointwork than was traditonally the case in such situations in Britain.  

 

Loco-Revue have run several articles on converting Peco code 75 Streamline track and points to hyper realisme but the modifications mainly consist of replacing the switch locking mechanism with a more authentic tie bar  and the plastic check rails with ones made from rail. There are some detail differences within pointwork,  though nothing that most modellers would even be aware of, but  you can now even get cosmetic kits to "francify" Peco  code 75 turnouts.  

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Pacific231G

[simonmcp]

15 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

....you can now even get cosmetic kits to "francify" Peco  code 75 turnouts.  

 

Hi Pacific231G, do you have a link to the supplier of these kits please?

[Pacific231G]

7 hours ago, simonmcp said:

Hi Pacific231G, do you have a link to the supplier of these kits please?

Hi Simon 

The kits are produced by BD Concepts (who I can't find online) but they are being marketed by Loco-Revue's "Boutique". They are designed specifically for Peco Streamline code 75 turnouts and can be found here. 

https://trains.lrpresse.com/A-19176-kit-de-detaillage-pour-3-aiguilles-peco.aspx

Each kit is €16.90 with enough parts to detail three standard Peco turnouts with separate kits for turnouts with or without point heaters.

There was a fairly detailed artcile in last October's Loco-Revue about using this kit to upgrade Peco turnouts (L-R Modelisme is one of Peco's retailers in France) includng advice on repainting it.  

For each turnout, the kit includes a  3D printed tie bar assembly- the only major surgery is to replace this for Peco's locking switch assembly. Everything else is cosmetic detailing like the metal "mandolins" that reinforce check rails, the two connecting struts between check rail and crossing , slide chairs for switch blades, and cosmetic  fishplates betweeen switch and closure rails. Peco's plastic check rails are retained as are its rail fixtures.

I'm not sure that all these details are found on every SNCF turnout or just the heavier main line ones. I don't know whether they could be used with Bullhead turnouts but I have seen some of this ironmongery on double champignon* turnouts. 

For publications I've always found Loco-Revue's mail order service to be very straightforward and efficient but I've not tried it since the dreaded B**x*t

 

For plain track, Apogée Vapeur actually sell etched brass templates for getting the sleeper spacing dead right for standard track panels for most of the pe-nationalisation companies as well as SNCF (with three different spacings) and RATP (Paris Metro) 

It would be fairly straightforward to make such a template (I made one from Plasticard years ago) but theyr'e only about €6 each.

The principle is explained here

https://www.apogee-vapeur.ch/collection-vmm/gabarits-de-pleine-voie

mainly with reference to Peco streamline or other flexible tracks though also for hand laid track. 

I'm afraid I have no idea how easy it is to order products from them for shipment to our isolated kingdom.

 

 

* To be really pedantic the only true "Bullhead" rail would be double champignon dissymétrique but some French railways did use double champignon symétrique even though the forlorn hope that it could be turned over to double its life died as quickly in France as here.  

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Pacific231G

[Gordonwis]

SNCF tend to use heavier rail than UK on modern main line track, so Code 100 is fine IMO.

 

With concrete sleeper track, one famous difference between SNCF and Britain is the use of 'bi-bloc' concrete sleepers much more often than monobloc concrete. Peco recently recognised this with their Bi-bloc track

[Allegheny1600]

21 minutes ago, Gordonwis said:

SNCF tend to use heavier rail than UK on modern main line track, so Code 100 is fine IMO.

 

With concrete sleeper track, one famous difference between SNCF and Britain is the use of 'bi-bloc' concrete sleepers much more often than monobloc concrete. Peco recently recognised this with their Bi-bloc track

With the greatest respect, Gordon, this is not true.

 The ONLY track in the world, ever, that can be represented by Peco code 100 is the heaviest American rail as used by sections on the Pennsylvania or Chesapeake and Ohio railroads and that’s it.

 The heaviest rail in normal use around the rest of the world is best represented by code 83 rail and for that, either use Roco, Atlas, or Peco American (but space the sleepers out).

There you go.

[Gordonwis]

20 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

With the greatest respect, Gordon, this is not true.

 

 

I said it was 'fine' - I didn't say it would be 'accurate'. - big difference... very little in the world of model railways is a truly accurate representation of the real thing