Class 15s on trains to March.

[jonny777]

I have done a search for a similar subject, but have found very little - so I thought I would try a new thread. 

 

My Whitemoor Junction box register for October 1967 has pairs of BTH Type 1s (Class 15s) arriving around midnight-ish on most weekdays. Looking at my Locoshed books for the era, one set are 34G Finsbury Park based, and the other are 32B Ipswich. I have an ECML WTT from that era, and 5J21 was the 2050 Ashburton Grove to Whitemoor. 

 

I realise that most of the London rubbish went to Blackbridge sidings as there are two separate weekday trains listed for there, 7B76 and 7B82, but does anyone have any info on the train to March which I suspect is the one the 15s were rostered for? 

 

Also does anyone have a 1967 winter East Anglian freight WTT; which might give a clue to the Ipswich - Whitemoor service? 

[Chris Turnbull]

This shot at Bury St Edmunds on 28th May 1968 is an evening shot so it could well be 5-76 as per the 1965 WTT attached.  Whilst this is not the 1968 WTT they didn't change too much. 

 

 

Freight WTT for BSE 1965.pdf

 

Chris Turnbull

[jonny777]

Thanks very much Chris. That is extremely useful. 

 

An oil train from Ipswich had not crossed my mind, but maybe a block train arrived from Immingham, and was tripped in parts to East Anglian destinations? 

 

More investigations are needed....

[Izzy]

A caption of a photo in diesels in East Anglia re 15’s says that in 1968 a regular duty was a pair working a Pointer sand train Ipswich to Coltishall & return in the morning, and a freight Ipswich to Whitemoor & return in the evening. Sadly it doesn’t elaborate on the latter, maybe it varied.

[Fat Controller]

21 minutes ago, Izzy said:

A caption of a photo in diesels in East Anglia re 15’s says that in 1968 a regular duty was a pair working a Pointer sand train Ipswich to Coltishall & return in the morning, and a freight Ipswich to Whitemoor & return in the evening. Sadly it doesn’t elaborate on the latter, maybe it varied.

I wonder if Pointer's train used their fleet of 16t 'cupboard-door' ex-SNCF minerals? There's a photo of one at Ipswich,  taken in 1969, in David Larkin's 'Private Owner Wagons on British Railways', which is one of the Bradford-Barton series published in the mid-1970s. The 'return empty' branding is to Coltishall.

[Chris Turnbull]

40 minutes ago, Izzy said:

A caption of a photo in diesels in East Anglia re 15’s says that in 1968 a regular duty was a pair working a Pointer sand train Ipswich to Coltishall & return in the morning, and a freight Ipswich to Whitemoor & return in the evening. Sadly it doesn’t elaborate on the latter, maybe it varied.

 

Presumably 7*70 Down and 7*V50 Up as the attached WTT.  I notice that these are afternoon workings in 1965 so perhaps this had changed by 1968.

 

Freight WTT for Coltishall 1965.pdf

 

Chris Turnbull

[russ p]

3 hours ago, Chris Turnbull said:

 

Presumably 7*70 Down and 7*V50 Up as the attached WTT.  I notice that these are afternoon workings in 1965 so perhaps this had changed by 1968.

 

Freight WTT for Coltishall 1965.pdf 1.16 MB · 3 downloads

 

Chris Turnbull

 

Hard to believe there was so much freight on the branch in the early sixties 

[Baby Deltic]

Palace Gates -  Whitemoor coal workings were sometimes with pairs of class 15's, or Baby Deltic's or class 31's or the combination of Baby Deltic and 15.

[jonny777]

17 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

Palace Gates -  Whitemoor coal workings were sometimes with pairs of class 15's, or Baby Deltic's or class 31's or the combination of Baby Deltic and 15.

 

Thanks for that info. It could be that working, instead of the Ashburton Grove one.

 

The Palace Gates evening working was 7J62, leaving around 19:20 and departing Hitchin at 21:04 but I don't have any other timings as it must have worked via Cambridge. However, the 15s are listed on the Whitemoor register at times which are 30 mins either side of midnight, and fit better with the Ashburton Grove service which ran 2 hours later in the evening. 

 

All this detail is great info. Thanks for the contributions. 

 

 

[russ p]

On 30/04/2021 at 16:52, Baby Deltic said:

Palace Gates -  Whitemoor coal workings were sometimes with pairs of class 15's, or Baby Deltic's or class 31's or the combination of Baby Deltic and 15.

 

Wow never seen pictures of baby deltics or 15s in mixed pairs

Got me thinking I wonder if the 16s ever multi'd up with the toffee apple brush 2s

Has there ever been a tread for unusual multi workings?

[Baby Deltic]

36 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Wow never seen pictures of baby deltics or 15s in mixed pairs

Got me thinking I wonder if the 16s ever multi'd up with the toffee apple brush 2s

Has there ever been a tread for unusual multi workings?

I've seen a picture of a 15 and 23 paired up on a train, although it might have been the Ashburton stinker. I have seen a photo 15 and 16 paired up on a freight near Bow Gasworks.

[keefer]

IIRC the cl.31/0 & 16s had Red Circle (electro-magnetic) MU equipment and the cl.15 & 23s had Blue Star (electro-pneumatic).

So presumably the cl.15/16 combo was double-manned? (or were some of the early cl.15s Red Circle?)

[russ p]

18 minutes ago, keefer said:

IIRC the cl.31/0 & 16s had Red Circle (electro-magnetic) MU equipment and the cl.15 & 23s had Blue Star (electro-pneumatic).

So presumably the cl.15/16 combo was double-manned? (or were some of the early cl.15s Red Circle?)

 

They were, all 15s were blue star . The only red circle other than 31/0 were 16s , half of 21, 28 and 29.

I always think it odd that the 21s selected for new engines to 29 were all red circle ones which was non standard. 

The red circle system was probably better than blue star as it had ten notches which was electrically operated unlike the blue star system which relies on a regulating air pipe  not leaking 

[Baby Deltic]

43 minutes ago, keefer said:

IIRC the cl.31/0 & 16s had Red Circle (electro-magnetic) MU equipment and the cl.15 & 23s had Blue Star (electro-pneumatic).

So presumably the cl.15/16 combo was double-manned? (or were some of the early cl.15s Red Circle?)

With the class 15/16 combination its highly the 16 had failed and was DIT.