Loco lamps as tail lamps on brake vans?

[Pillar]

Hi All,

 

I'm working on a few brake vans at the moment and bought a selection of BR, ex-LNER and ex-LMS lamps from Lanarkshire models to adorn them (the ones on this page: http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_025.htm). However I mistakenly ordered loco lamps rather than brake van tail lamps, not realising initially that there was a difference or spotting the second page on the Lanarkshire website ! I've now ordered some brake van-specific lamps from the same source, but am planning to hang on to the loco lamps and attempt to find uses for some of them.

 

My questions are:

 

a) What sort of uses would loco oil lamps have been put to in the diesel era which I'm modelling?

 

b) Would loco oil lamps ever have been used for tail lamps on brake vans or at the ends of fitted trains (assuming they could be fitted with a red lens)? Looking at photos of brake vans in the BR era, I haven't come across any yet which show anything other than the standard 'tail lamp' of the type seen here: http://www.lanarkshiremodels.com/lanarkshiremodelsandsupplieswebsite_150.htm

 

I'd be grateful for any advice on the above. I have to say I'd expected the different lamp types to be fairly interchangeable. I'm sure I've handled 1:1 examples which had switchable red and clear lenses, which would suggest that they could be used for different purposes rather than being dedicated head or tail lamps only.

 

EDIT - I'm aware that brake van side lamps are a different matter, as they need to show clear and red lenses in opposite directions simultaneously.

 

Cheers,

 

Liam

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Pillar

[The Stationmaster]

If you are modelling the earlier part of the diesel era then light locos would have carried an oil tail lamp as the inbuilt red lights were not regarded as being safe to use as tail lamps (battery life problems plus difficult to see in daylight).

 

I don't  know to what extent red shades were available for LNER and LMS pattern loco but either engines would have had to carry a tail lamp for use when needed or a red shade would be inserted (I doubt if that could be done with the round body of LNER lamps).  Loco lamps weren't entirely interchangeable of course because Western engines, including diesels, had their lamp irons at 90 degrees to the irons on other Regions/Grouped Companies - definitely helped prevent lamps being nicked when off home territory

[Rail-Online]

The LNER and BR(E) round bodied loco lamps had an internal mechanism which put a red shade between the lens and the burner - a very neat arrangement activated by a wing nut type switch on the outside of the lamp. Therefore there was no 'slide out' red shade to get damaged or lost.

 

Tony

[Pillar]

1 hour ago, Rail-Online said:

The LNER and BR(E) round bodied loco lamps had an internal mechanism which put a red shade between the lens and the burner - a very neat arrangement activated by a wing nut type switch on the outside of the lamp. Therefore there was no 'slide out' red shade to get damaged or lost.

 

Tony

 

I think I've seen these, or something very similar, at auction before. It would appear then that loco lamps were used as tail lamps for light locos at least; but did they ever find a way onto brake vans or the end wagons of fitted freights?

 

As Mike has alluded to, items often seem to be appropriated on the railways between one department or another.

 

The descriptions for the loco lamps on Lanarkshire models' website also suggest that some of them lasted as late as the 1990s. I wonder what they would have been used for by this time, given that diesels had adequate head/tail lights.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Pillar