Pier 101 - car floating on The Bay in 1975

[Barclay]

Posting this thread is a concerted effort to force myself to start building this layout, after several months/years of procrastination. 

 

I model the British industrial scene in EM gauge but I have been interested in US railroads for some years. I was very inspired by Jay Bendersky's atmospheric book 'Brooklyn's Waterfront Railways', and I started planning a car float/switching layout set somewhere in New York. However, somewhere along the line I read about the Santa Fe's 'China Basin' - a yard accessible operationally only by car float, although surrounded by the lines of other railways. This seemed to fit the bill nicely, and I really like their livery, so a freelance shortline in Brooklyn became the Santa Fe in California; the Bee Gees and The Ramones became the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, and I found myself standing on the San Francisco waterfront. All I have to do now is build it!

 

 

 

The purpose of the layout is really just an excuse to mess around with US loco's and boxcars, and, with a bigger layout already in my loft, this will have to be small - I have squeezed it to 6' x 2' and can't make it any smaller. I do accept that this track plan, with its convoluted pointwork, perhaps owes more to British practice than American, but I wanted to fit in as much action as possible.

 

My intention is to also use this thread to describe my loco projects - I only have one loco that is 'good to go' at present, so I have added a link to its thread for the sake of completeness.

 

 

Enough words, so I will talk of the more practical considerations next time.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[fulton]

Hi Good luck with the project, I to flit between British EM and American HO, I also find carfloat operations fascinating, photo of my layout due to be at Bristol this year. 

[long island jack]

What is the purpose of the bottom track, because the head shunt doesn't look big enough for a loco, never mind anything else

 

To me this a case for, less is more

[long island jack]

Have a look here may give you some ideas 

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/IndustrialLocos.html

[New Haven Neil]

Did it in G 'scale' 25 years ago - it floated too!

 

Edit - Tony Lambert photo I think - it was too long ago!

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by New Haven Neil

[Barclay]

25 minutes ago, long island jack said:

Have a look here may give you some ideas 

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/IndustrialLocos.html

Superb link - thank you.

 

The sketch is a little rough, and marking it out full size at the weekend, which I'll describe next, I was careful to allow room on the headshunt for my longest loco and a 50' box car. You may well be right though and since there will be no wood cut until the weather warms up I have time to consider the options...

[Barclay]

With the help of point templates from Fast Tracks and Handlaid Track.com I managed to plan the layout out full size at the weekend. It's obviously a little different from the sketch - we as modellers are well known for expecting points to take up about half the space they actually demand. Still it all works out, and there's room on the loop to run round a boxcar, or even two! 

 

With apologies to @long island jack I do appreciate that the plan is a little bonkers and I may still simplify it because the pointwork does look a little busy. However it will almost all be set within concrete or under timbers so the visual impact may be less than it appears. The area approaching the carfloat has not been drawn as so much depends on the carfloat itself. I have ordered a Walthers carfloat bridge so we'll see what that suggests when it arrives. I do appreciate that the real arrangements at China Basin involved an amazing 3-way gauntleted point which in a way would be nice to build but is probably not compatible with the Walthers set up. We'll see. 

 

The plan is to build the track on copperclad sleepers, as it will be hidden (what do you think - code 70/75 or 83?). Would code 70 preclude some of my old Athearn stuff from running?

 

The carfloat itself will act as the main staging area, with a short 'fiddlestick' on the right side, bottom in this photo, used as a headshunt, which can be raised out of the way when the layout is not in use.

 

 

Loco's - a somewhat motley collection obtained cheaply from ebay mostly some years ago, the most respectable being a Proto-2000 GP7 currently in Pennsylvania livery and the dodgiest probably being an Alco S2 which is a Carey kit on an old Athearn chassis, with an Ernst re-gearing kit. I enjoy a challenge !

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[doctor quinn]

Looks interesting, I’ll be following along. Old Athearn stuff should still have RP25 wheels so code 70 track will be fine for the Alco, a most appropriate engine for the project.

 

https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Santa_Fe_Railroad_Ferry_China_Basin

[Barclay]

Well I obviously became over-excited at finding a Walthers carfloat apron in the UK, because Osborns Models emailed me back confirming the order but stating that an order confirmation was not necessarily an indication that the item was in stock. A check of their website showed that it is now listed as out of stock. They don't answer the 'phone and, so far, aren't responding to emails. Some research, which I should have done first perhaps, confirms that my experience is not unique. 

 

I think it likely that I'll be going down the route of claiming a refund through Paypal, but meanwhile does anyone know where I can actually obtain one of these? Walthers of course but what are their postage charges like from the US? Otherwise it will be D.I.Y !

[fulton]

I sold to ANORAKS ANONYMOUS, about a year ago, a number of "new" surplus Frenchman River Works carfloat aprons, tug kits and Walthers carfloats, tugs, may still have them available

[long island jack]

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/model-railways/walthers-cornerstone-brand5/walthers-cornerstone-wh933-3152.html

[Barclay]

2 minutes ago, long island jack said:

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/model-railways/walthers-cornerstone-brand5/walthers-cornerstone-wh933-3152.html

Thanks - the apron is out of stock at the moment. I've more or less decided to build my own carfloat, since mine would have to be shorter than the Walthers one in any case.

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, Barclay said:

but meanwhile does anyone know where I can actually obtain one of these? Walthers of course but what are their postage charges like from the US? Otherwise it will be D.I.Y !

 

There are I believe several retailers, including Rails of Sheffield, who deal with Walthers and thus can order you anything from Walthers and save you the hassle of bringing it into the UK.

 

Don't assume if they UK retailer doesn't list it that they can't get it - all that matters is that they have a Walthers account - so contacting them and they can get a price for you and you can then decide whether to proceed or not.

Edited February 9, 2022 by mdvle

[Barclay]

2 hours ago, RailroadRich said:

About 4 years old now this video, but might provide some real life guidance for your Car Float ops...

 

 

 

Boomer DIoramas on Youtube is also building an HO scale river layout with a barge, so his channel might also provide some hints.

That really is something - such atmosphere. I need a sea-bird sound effect !

[Barclay]

Well the carfloat apron was a washout - Osborns confirmed they didn't have one and refunded me.

 

After looking at pictures for a while I have decided to build my own. The old Dapol signal gantry kit will provide the framework, very similar in fact to the structure at China Basin, and the bridge itself can be made with Wills bridge girders I believe. This will at least enable me to have real live track on the bridge and even consider the gauntletted 3 way point, if I'm feeling brave...

 

Meanwhile as a diversion I have started on another loco - this Athearn SW-something was obtained from ebay as part of a set with a couple of gondolas, which will probably end up being used as reach cars, so a useful purchase. The loco however needs some work to represent an ATSF SW9:

• The Athearn cab is nothing like the real loco, and the Cannon cab for this one is currently unavailable, so I have had a go at building my own. What you see here is version 3, and I think I'm starting to get somewhere, it will never be perfect. Just 15 thou brass; 0.33mm brass wire, and the louvres from the Plano 'EMD Switcher louvres' etch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not yet started:

• Radiator grille (Detail Associates)
• Grilles on top of hood (Detail Associates)
• New dual headlights (Detail Associates)
• Re-configure the body side louvres to represent an SW9 (Plano)
• Cab roof - horns and beacon to be re-used from Athearn roof, and radio platform/antenna to be added from brass
• Replace steps (A-Line)
• Possibly replace handrails with finer ones from wire
• Extra grab rails on body side
• Exhaust stacks look a little short for the prototype I am modelling
• Improve details on pilot beams
• Do what I can with the tanks on the underframe, which are moulded in half-relief. Not much I suspect, as I'm not up for grinding away parts of the frame.

 

Edit - a couple more SW9 differences have made themselves visible to me - the larger, more triangular frame gussets, easily rectified, and the hood door latches - very difficult to do accurately but I hope a small drilled 'dimple' that can be filled with dirt/dark paint will look the part.

 

And when this little lot is done I need to make a half-decent job of the paint - fingers crossed...

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Barclay]

Slowly over the last week my failure to purchase a Walthers carfloat bridge has become something of a blessing. The one at China Basin, my inspiration, wasn't a lot like the Walthers bridge, so building my own gives me the chance to do something more appropriate. China basin has been heavily redeveloped in recent years, but the Santa Fe pier, tracks, and carfloat bridge still stand, elegantly rotting away, 40 years after the last train left, and there are spectacular photo's on line to guide me. I won't post any for reasons of copyright, but the link posted by @doctor quinn on 2nd February gives a good idea of the design of the float-bridge structure. Looking around for structural items I discovered the old Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol signal gantry, and parts from three of these have provided the main structure. More detail to be added yet of course, including the winding wheels and a small building which I think would have housed the power system and winches. 

 

 

 

 

The real float bridge itself is somewhat longer than the Walthers one, probably somewhere between 2 and 3 boxcars in length, and just has a timbered deck the same as the adjacent parts of the pier, so pretty easy to reproduce. I can't make it scale length, but by replacing that point with the 3 way one I should get a reasonable length. The tracks on the bridge are straight and the rails of each line practically touch the next, the tracks only spreading out to full running clearance on the float itself.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Barclay]

Been working on the SW9 this weekend. The Detail Associates dual lights have been installed and the bodyside louvres replaced with Plano EMD switcher louvres in the SW9 pattern. New steps from A-Line, triangular frame gussets from Plasticard, and hood top grilles in place of the incorrect Athearn louvres , also from Detail Associates - a very nice stainless steel etch. The issue of what can be seen underneath them had eluded me until I saw an advert for KV models, who make an etching for this very thing - radiator shutters of some kind. I was able to copy this in Plasticard, quite crudely, and this insert will be fitted after painting. The front grille was replaced by a Detail Associates version, but I have been less pleased with this - the grille itself is incredibly fine brass gauze, which just wouldn't stay flat.  I tried tinning it to stiffen it up but in this morning's cold light it still looked awful so out it came and I hope to find some better grille material. At the moment I'm looking at Scalelink Fretcetera which sells an astonishing variety.

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, despite having a number of projects waiting for attention I couldn't resist this - an older Roco-built Walthers Fairbanks Morse H10-44 which came from Hattons for just £40. A touch early for me but if I call it an H12-44 they lasted into 1974 - after that it's rule 1 !!

 

The plan is to keep this one simple and paint it while doing the SW9 - batches are much more efficient in paint.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Barclay]

The SW9 is now nearly ready for paint. The front grille was the cause of much grief - I ordered a fine etched mesh from Scalelink Fretcetera but it was too opaque - these grilles are incredibly fine in reality, more like chicken wire to be honest. I also ordered some fine real mesh from 'The Mesh Company', which has a huge variety available. It does look good, albeit  a little coarse, but in the end I realised that the Detail Associates kit includes components for 2 grilles, and the other one was in fact, flat. Only I could go to all that trouble with the answer staring me in the face all the time...

 

I think that's all it will need except for new slightly finer handrails. I bottled the recessed bodyside door latches - I just couldn't figure a way of making them look consistent enough. Perhaps tiny pieces of black decal will provide the answer. Cab not yet attached but I can't put it off much longer. Exhausts I have not replaced although the Santa Fe ones do look a little longer - again I was concerned that I couldn't make a better one. The existing ones were drilled out slightly though to make them look finer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Barclay]

Still working on layout planning - and the 3 way that feeds the carfloat kept rearing its head - space is limited and if it's dimensions were too improbable to allow it to function I would have to re-think things. I've therefore had a stab at it and, despite appearances, it works !!

 

Please rest assured, all but the rails will be concealed under timbers...

 

[Barclay]

Finally time to start cutting wood, and, over the last 2 weekends, the car has been unceremoniously evicted from the garage so I could use it as a woodworking shop. About that, my woodwork is adequate at best, and certainly not pretty, but after much cursing, 3 sheets of 9mm ply have at last been battered into submission, and the layout now officially exists!

 

I have tried to keep it as light as possible, and it was easy to carry each board into the loft single handed. The holes in the bracing are as much for wiring access as saving weight, though I did weigh the holes, and they came to about 300g, slightly less than a can of coke, so a worthwhile saving I suppose. I also realised I could trim the width from 24" to 22" to make more elbow room in the loft.

 

The uneven split allows all the points to be on one board, and hopefully will allow the joint to be more easily concealed. Since the photo was taken the end profile of the larger board has had a small piece cut out as I realised that from the water you ought to be able to see under the float bridge, which is suspended over the water. The area where the pencil lines are has now been cut out and the harbour extended under the float bridge area.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Barclay

[Barclay]

The SW9 has now been painted - Model Master Insignia Blue and Blue Angels Yellow, with Humbrol 'Clear' gloss to prepare it for decals. After that all the final details, including cab roof, new handrails, glazing, pilot details, sunshades, it goes on and on!

 

[Northroader]

Hope you’ve left room for a tugboat?

[Barclay]

I would love a tugboat! I have my eyes on the Santa Fe's 'Paul P Hastings' which is the boat that would have served Pier 101 if it existed. It was blue and yellow, and powered by an EMD 567 after conversion to diesel, so pretty much perfect. However it scales out at nearly 20 inches which would probably overwhelm the layout. Not to mention, its proportion would be wrong compared to the rather short carfloat I will need to build. Also, I'd have to build it... Sadly therefore, I think less is going to be more! 

[Northroader]

You could try some of what they call, “selective compression”? so that it matches the smaller carfloat size.

[Barclay]

This is a similar conversation to one I had at the NMRA meet in Feering a couple of weeks ago, where one of the exhibitors suggested the Revell tugboat kit. It's 1:108, which helps keep it reasonably small and in proportion. I've gone and ordered one off eBay now - it was only £12.50, so a real bargain compared to the Walthers one too. Thanks for the prompt!