Verwood, Dorset - 3D Printed LSWR Type 1 Signal Box

[Steve Smith]

Hi Duncan,

That's not a daft question at all!  The answer is - how many levers and in what positions?  I'm working up to a more comprehensive test print and can put whatever you ask for on that - it will take hardly any space up on the build plate - so not much to lose. 

There are no plates on the levers at the moment - which style of plates do I need to try to add for West Moors?

Steve

[RailWest]

6 minutes ago, Steve Smith said:

Hi Duncan,

That's not a daft question at all!  The answer is - how many levers and in what positions?  I'm working up to a more comprehensive test print and can put whatever you ask for on that - it will take hardly any space up on the build plate - so not much to lose. 

There are no plates on the levers at the moment - which style of plates do I need to try to add for West Moors?

Steve

West Moors in BR days had the SR style of plates (painted ovals), /probably/ a replacement set done i/c/w the war-time alterations, but one would need to check the SR's order books to confirm that.

[Steve Smith]

With the help of Chris Osment and one of his excellent web pages dedicated to S&DJR Lever Description Plates (LDPs), I have been adding LDPs to the lever frame for Verwood.  Mindful that West Moors would need the later Southern pattern oval, I have catered for three patterns of LDP. 

 

This render of the lever frame sports a simplified version of the scalloped LSWR LDP on levers 1 to 9.  Lever 10 wrongly sports the later Southern oval to show what one would look like if specified, whilst Lever 11 sports the narrow Southern Oval mounted high up as at Verwood.  The numbers are over scale in the hope that they can be dry brushed with white paint and perhaps visible.  I haven't bothered with either raised borders, or the gutter that the narrow oval type had, as this stuff will be tiny in 4mm scale.  The actual lever numbers are supplied in an array catering for A,B,C levers to be added to the left.  The LDP pattern to be fitted is supplied in another array.  The lower plates are on a double lugged fitting that mounts them at an angle, and the angle was guessed at 10 degrees,

 

To prepare for a full test print, I've been fixing errors in the Signal Box CAD model shown up by the partial test print, and removing the 3D printed sashes to make room for the laser etched versions.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Steve Smith

[RailWest]

Lever 6, as a GF release, would have been blue in L&SWR days or blue/brown in SR days - you can just make it out as two-tone in photos. It is more questionable as to what was done with lever 11....

 

Don't forget the upper 'pull plates' needed on some of the levers :-)

 

[RailWest]

>>>The lower plates are on a double lugged fitting that mounts them at an angle, and the angle was guessed at 10 degrees....

 

For the L&SWR-style cast brass plates the two pairs of lugs are of different lengths in order to give the angle. The angle between the lugs and the back of the plate is approx 60 degrees. If you hold a plate with the lugs horizontal then the holes in the fixing lugs are vertically above one another, but of course you also have to take into account the taper of the levers and whether or not it is truly vertical when normal.

 

With the (wider size) SR painted plates there is a small ramp cast along the inner side of the rear bracket at an angle of about 10 degrees to the back of the plate and this rests against the front edge of the lever to give the 'slope'.

 

In an attempt to (hopefully!) clarify my comments, photos are attached showing the rear of L&SWR and SR examples. Hopefully the 'ramp' in the latter is obvious...:-)

Edited July 15, 2022 by RailWest

[Steve Smith]

Thanks Chris - with your help getting closer!   I do need to stay within the realms of what can be 3D printed in 4mm scale, and can't reasonably render things striped using OpensCAD, but...

30° for the brass LSWR plates seemed too laid back, but 22.5° appears to match the look of Alresford, and that has black background plates.

 

 

And a rear view, showing the single lug and ramp on the SR oval. using the top hole of the LSWR fitting.  I had noticed some dangly things at the top of the levers at Verwood, and now I know what they were!  They're pretty small and seem to come in two sizes - will take that away and see what I can do.

[Steve Smith]

Thanks again to Chris' input, a closer approximation to the lugs - the SR Oval is now only lugged on this side.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Steve Smith

[Blandford1969]

On 02/07/2022 at 13:22, Steve Smith said:

Hi Duncan,

That's not a daft question at all!  The answer is - how many levers and in what positions?  I'm working up to a more comprehensive test print and can put whatever you ask for on that - it will take hardly any space up on the build plate - so not much to lose. 

There are no plates on the levers at the moment - which style of plates do I need to try to add for West Moors?

Steve

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks  In  terms of the plates this is what they looked like - (this is a snip of a photo from the KRM, done with approval)

 

 

 

There were 24 levers with 23 being spare. I have to will come back to you on the positions for the levers once I have spoken with Peter Russell, who as you know is the person who really knows the most about West Moors and I'm sure now has the signalling diagram. So far my only guess based on this partial view is all are normal apart from 15 being revered ( but I have not seen levers 1 to 9)

 

Best wishes

Duncan

Edited July 15, 2022 by Blandford1969
correction and clarity

[Nick C]

26 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks Steve, In  terms of the plates this is what they looked like - (this is a snip of a photo from the KRM, done with approval)

 

 

 

There were 24 levers with 23 being spare. I have to will come back to you on the number and normal positions for the levers once I have spoken with Peter Russell, who as you know is the person who really knows the most about West Moors and I'm sure now has the signalling diagram.

 

Best wishes

Duncan

I think I've got a copy of the SRS box diagram for West Moors - I can't post it here as it's copyright, but I'm happy to look up anything and PM details.

[Blandford1969]

Just now, Nick C said:

I think I've got a copy of the SRS box diagram for West Moors - I can't post it here as it's copyright, but I'm happy to look up anything and PM details.

If it does thanks that would be great as 'Signal Box Diagrams of the Great Western and Southern Railways' by GA Pryer has the layout and numbering, but not the positions. 

[Nick C]

3 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

If it does thanks that would be great as 'Signal Box Diagrams of the Great Western and Southern Railways' by GA Pryer has the layout and numbering, but not the positions. 

I'll have a look later - can't guarantee it's not the same diagram of course, as he drew many of the diagrams for the SRS. 

[RailWest]

At West Moors levers 1, 12 and 22 were short-handled as they controlled power-worked items. There were no push-pull levers. Normally all levers would have been normal except for 24, which would have been reversed to allow the gates to be left across the rails. However as the photo shows 15 (the FPL) may well have been left over in readiness for the next train if it was following the same route as its predecessor.

[RailWest]

7 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

If it does thanks that would be great as 'Signal Box Diagrams of the Great Western and Southern Railways' by GA Pryer has the layout and numbering, but not the positions. 

Which period are you modelling?

 

[Blandford1969]

1 minute ago, RailWest said:

Which period are you modelling?

 

Thanks, I would never have known that. As for the period 1950's 

[RailWest]

>>>...30° for the brass LSWR plates seemed too laid back, but 22.5° appears to match the look of Alresford, and that has black background plates....

 

Another thorny subject :-) Most ex-L&SWR brass plates have a plain black blackground, but odd examples do survive which have the actual lever colour instead. Some of those are clearly original, others seen in private collections have clearly been repainted at some date to match the lever colour and it is unclear if they were like that originally or not.

[Steve Smith]

Over scale thickness pull plates (0.15mm) have been added to the levers that had them in the two sizes seen at Verwood. 

 

After perusing the locking chart, I've moved all the levers needed to finally pull lever 11 fully over.   This should therefore be what Verwood frame looked like when the box was switched out.  Only the down loop stop signals are at danger.  One of those is on a bracket with the other stop signal off, and the second is now 'other line' to any train passing through.   Whether something this delicate can really be 3D printed in 4mm scale with current technology remains to be seen! 

[Steve Smith]

 

After realising that the lever release pivot was below the pull plate lugs at the real Verwood, I've moved them down a tad and moved the pull plate lugs up.  This looks much closer to the real Verwood than before.

[RailWest]

What I do not know (yet) is exactly when the SR changed from making L&SWR style cast brass LDPs to their cast-iron 'painted oval' style.

 

It is /possible/ that there was something of an overlap for a period, in that 'new sets' may have been made to the new style but 'odd extras' still done in the old style to match existing arrangements. For example, Blandford had quite a lot of replacement plates in the old style in 1930 (replaced in 1951 by a whole new set in the new style), whereas Templecombe No 2 Junction had a whole new set in the new style in 1932, yet Wincanton had a few 'odd replacements' in 1933 in the old style.

 

Photo evidence for Verwood shows that the 'pull plates' at least for levers 1 and 10 were 'old style', as also /appears/ to be the main plate for 10. If 11 had a new-style plate then one could speculate that perhaps it was deemed to difficult to get all the required info on an old-style plate?

[Steve Smith]

One new OpensCAD config file later - this should be fairly close to what was in the box at West Moors. 

 

 

Happy to be corrected on lever colours, remembering that striping is not practical, and 3D prints will be in plain grey resin anyway.

[RailWest]

Well, for a start, given that the box was new in 1904 then IMHO it is unlikely that the frame was made by Stevens & Son, more likely to be one of the other contractors used by the L&SWR to supply them to the Stevens design. For example, Woolston (1901) was Evans O'Donnell, whilst Corfe Mullen Jcn (1905) was McKenzie & Holland.

 

Lever 1 should be top half blue, bottom half brown, the others seem OK.

 

On levers 6, 22 and 23 the numbers and letters on the plates should be in black not white :-)

[Steve Smith]

Chris, I'm going to count that as success!   I have had a go at black numbers on light backgrounds, but the programming gods have deserted me for now.

 

I don't suppose you have photos of one or more of these alternative ends?  If no-one knows which one it actually was, Duncan will have to pick the one that we have a photo for that appeals most.

[Blandford1969]

59 minutes ago, Steve Smith said:

Chris, I'm going to count that as success!   I have had a go at black numbers on light backgrounds, but the programming gods have deserted me for now.

 

I don't suppose you have photos of one or more of these alternative ends?  If no-one knows which one it actually was, Duncan will have to pick the one that we have a photo for that appeals most.

Thanks Steve, I will ask Peter Russel if he can remember what type of frame was in the box (which is a long shot)

 

[RailWest]

This is a photo of the end of the EoD frame at Shapwick. The frame from Woolston of course ended up at Washford, but although I saw the end plate many times I never bothered to take a photo of it :-(  Maybe someone may have access to wherever the parts are now stored (at the MHR?) to get one ? I've not got anything comparable for a McK&H frame.

[Steve Smith]

After an 'interesting' tussle with OpenSCAD since it doesn't allow the user to set variables in conventional 'if' statements, but does allow one to do it in a weird conditional assignment with 'C' language like syntax, the computing gods were smiling again.

And to please our Christopher, this is West Moors masquerading as an Evans O'Donnell frame with black numbers on white or yellow plates - still just in boring old grey resin.  As with the Verwood Crane, these could be printed much more impressively in 7mm scale.

 

[Steve Smith]

It seems that every coal fired LSWR signalbox had a stove rather than open fire.  This little chap will be just the job for Verwood and is of a type very familiar to Nick C!   Thanks for those photos Nick!