MR/LMS sheffield suburban coaches

[cheesysmith]

I have been converting some of the ratio coach kits into something representing a sheffield set. Does anyone have the numbers of such a 4 coach set? And where to obtain such numbers?

 

Thanks

[Compound2632]

R.E. Lacy & G. Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1986) appendix 35 gives original and 1933 numbers and withdrawal dates. One can make some informed guesses about sets from the withdrawal dates, though there's no guarantee that carriages stayed in the same sets throughout their lifetime.

[cheesysmith]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

R.E. Lacy & G. Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 (Wild Swan, 1986) appendix 35 gives original and 1933 numbers and withdrawal dates. One can make some informed guesses about sets from the withdrawal dates, though there's no guarantee that carriages stayed in the same sets throughout their lifetime.

 

Could you provide some random numbers for these coaches (post 33), late withdrawal date ones?

 

Also, the first used as a composite, how was it arranged? TTFFFTT or some other pattern? 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, cheesysmith said:

 

Could you provide some random numbers for these coaches (post 33), late withdrawal date ones?

 

Also, the first used as a composite, how was it arranged? TTFFFTT or some other pattern? 

 

I'll PM you a scan of the relevant pages tomorrow, though the book is reasonably readily available second hand. The composites were arranged FFFFTTT. You are aware, I presume, that the Sheffield area sets used only the 4-compartment brake thirds, not the 6-compartment ones, and these carriages all ran on 8 ft wheelbase bogies? There's an excellent topic hereabouts on building the Ratio kits to represent these carriages, with the underframe modified from kingpost to queenpost trussing. 

 

For post-1933, you should do away with the lower step-boards, which were removed a few years earlier.

 

Not all the Sheffield District batch ran in the Sheffield area; it seems that at least two four-coach sets were assigned to the K&WV.

[ianLMS]

 

The folks on RMWeb really helped me put together a Sheffield Suburban set from the Ratio kits. Couldnt have done it without them!!

[cheesysmith]

4 hours ago, ianLMS said:

 

The folks on RMWeb really helped me put together a Sheffield Suburban set from the Ratio kits. Couldnt have done it without them!!

 

It was your posting that gave me the idea. Mine are not as good as yours.

 

The underframe trussing is from the ex kirk bits from phoenix, bogies from the same (SR ones with the tie bar between axles cut off). Respaced to 33ft bogie centres, MJT etch frames. Battery boxes from the same ex kirk sprues, fictional electric lighting, and only single row of roof vents, using the gas light vents as the one on the sprue had too much flash.

[Compound2632]

I PM'd some pages from Lacy & Dow to @cheesysmith who made the observation that there were no hinges to the guard's door on the brake thirds. This is, I think, an observation new to Midland carriageology, so I'm reposting my reply to here, slightly edited:

 

Looking at the posed photo of the brake third as new [Lacy & Dow, Midland Railway Carriages Vol. 2 p. 290 fig. 383], I can't see the hinges there either. In the push-pull photo, one can see that the door doesn't extend right to the bottom of the side but stops at floor level. Compare this photo of one of the Birmingham District brake thirds: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrbg143.htm - where the hinges are clear enough.

 

The Birmingham District carriages were built in 1908/9, following the pattern set by the Manchester South District sets of 1902/3. By the time the Sheffield District sets were built in 1913/14, the 8'6" width was a bit of a throwback, 9'0" wide carriages having been built for London-Bedford, Metropolitan, and Nottingham services. Some of the Metropolitan brake carriages had recessed double doors to their short guard's compartments, with one door opening inwards; the brake thirds for the Nottingham sets were possibly built with outward-opening guard's doors but soon altered to inwards opening (as described by Lacy & Dow, p. 289) though I wonder if it's just that the diagram is wrong. These were built in 1912. Carriages built for the LTS section in 1913/14 also had inward-opening guard's doors, so I suppose it was a feature that had been established by then so was applied to the Sheffield sets, even though they were the narrower width. But because of the narrower width, or rather because the sides were vertical above the tumblehome rather than leaning inwards to the eves, it wasn't necessary to recess the inward opening door as on the wider stock.