Restoring an ancient GNR 4-4-2

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Hello all,

 

Recently the mortal remains of a GNR C1 Atlantic popped up on the bay of e, and I took the risk of buying it as it looked very very well made and I have a soft spot for engines of antiquity.

 

And so the engine journeys forth across the sea to Oklahoma, and arrived yesterday. I was in for quite a treat. It is superbly made, I’ve seen worse engines in 5 inch gauge. 
 

Here some pics.

 

 

 

 

I know very little about it’s origins. At first I thought it was a special commission piece by Bassett Lowke or C. Butcher & Co, but alas, tis not! It was in fact made by one Arthur Ficke, in 1950 according to the beautiful inscription he left underneath the running plate. Mr. Ficke must have had access to an extremely well equipped workshop, possibly an MOD establishment? Many of the screws are far to small to be in the average builders home. Personally I think he was a watchmaker, (being one myself I can tell another’s work) as all the screws are expertly countersunk and he has even taken the time to hand engrave the cab floor, which looks like it might have been done on a watch dial turning machine. 
 

Here’s a shot a shot of one of the driving axles, a perfect fit in their horn guides which are even fitted with tiny brass wear plates.

 

 

The cylinders are also beautifully made. They are turned from solid brass, holes drilled on the ends to bake the “bolts.” These are actually tiny rods of steel pressed into the holes and then cut off and filed, then polished flat. The effect is fantastic.

 

 

 

So, what’s the plan? Well I’m not sure. I won’t be painting the engine as it’s current patina looks fantastic, however I have gone through all the moving parts and removed any corrosion, and cleaned and re oiled the bearings. The inside of the frames has also been cleaned.

 

The main problem is the splashers and tender have parted company with the engine. I’m not sure if I’ll make new splashers, as well the engine looks alright without them and I’m not sure I could match Mr. Ficke’s standard. However I will be making a brand new tender with tender drive for it, and if anybody could point me in the direction of some 7mm Ivatt tender drawings that would be very nice.   
 

 

Also, if anybody has heard of Arthur Ficke do say. Google is devoid.

 

 

Douglas

Edited May 15, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[Simond]

A lovely thing, as you say.  I presume 7mm / 0 gauge?

 

if, as you suggest, it was built in an MOD workshop, perhaps Mr Ficke may have been an instrument tech.

the rods are particularly fine.

 

Personally, I think it deserves a set of footplates and splashers.  I gather from your comment about tender drive, it doesn’t have a motor?

[Florence Locomotive Works]

6 hours ago, Simond said:

A lovely thing, as you say.  I presume 7mm / 0 gauge?

 

if, as you suggest, it was built in an MOD workshop, perhaps Mr Ficke may have been an instrument tech.

the rods are particularly fine.

 

Personally, I think it deserves a set of footplates and splashers.  I gather from your comment about tender drive, it doesn’t have a motor?

Indeed, it is O gauge, and appears to have a some very early finescale wheels that not even my Bassett Lowke engines can match. 
 

That’s a good point about Mr. Ficke.

 

Correct, it does not have a motor and no provisions for the mounting of one. The plan is build a powered tender, with batteries in the engines enormous boiler. 

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Just got finished turning up a new left hand buffer on the lathe, along with making the buffers internals. Haven’t made the spring or nut yet though.

 

 

 

 

The next task is to add some weight to the firebox as the weight distribution is all wrong. The engine puts about 75% of its weight on the front coupled axle and bogie currently, I’m going to try for 60% on the rear and 40% on the front.

 

Douglas

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Right, well I lied about keeping the patina.

 

After much staring at the engine, and worrying over the condition of the rusting bolts just about everywhere, I decided Friday to take the engine sort down to the frames and clean everything. This took a good 3 hours, and the engine was utterly filthy. I think the engine had been in a smokers house as the constitution of the gunge removed matches that of the nicotine that comes off clocks at work. Afterwards my hands looked like those of a Willesden fitters boy.

 

The process went like this:

1. Rub surface vigorously with a wire brush so as the loosen material.

2. Rub surface with dry 600 grit sandpaper to remove most material.

3. Rub surface with 1000 grit sandpaper dunked in Brasso polish to act as abrasive to rneove more material.

4. Anything left then repeat steps 2-3.

 

The wheelsets were sanded in the lathe using 600 then 1000 grit paper.

 

 

The screws which are all watchmaker pattern steel countersunk ones (except about 4 on the drag beam) had their heads cleaned up on 1000 grit in brasso polish using this beautiful old watchmakers sliding pin vice I used to hold them, it’s from around the 1870s seen here holding the whistle. The threads were wire brushed if needed but many weren’t.

 

 

And here is the end result of all this toil, which it really was as nicotine is awful stuff to clean. The boiler and cap still aren’t quite done as I need to use the dads Dremel in places (firebox stays etc) that sandpaper can’t go. The plan is to keep it like this, polished but aged I would say.

 

 
 

 

 

 

 

The backhead detail is the next project as the weight distribution was solved by adjusting the spring in the suspension. 
 

All I’ve done so far is clean up the two random expertly made screws in the back which were rusted solid into there solid copper home, and replaced one of them with the fake regulator gland. Next up is making the regality proper, which I think is the standard GNR pull type but if anyone knows better do say. 
 

I have also done drawings for a tender, with a bit of a twist. My day job is a clockmaker, and I have access to loads of old scrap movements of great quality from the 1890s that are to expensive to restore, so I thought, “why not dry and make the tender clockwork drive?” Now some of you are shaking your heads but this probably will work and quite well to, but that project is still a ways off.

 

Douglas

Edited May 22, 2022 by Florence Locomotive Works

[J. S. Bach]

Douglass,

 Your workmanship is quite good. However, if I had seen that floating in the 'bay; first, it would now be living in a more southerly state and second, it would have (most likely) been left it as it was as a lot of my older stuff would match it. Painting is such a headache (or too darn expensive) for me. Please note that I do not routinely troll ebay for English/foreign stuff (class 66s excepted; hurry up Dapol) but that one would have appealed to me. However, the trailing truck would probably been replaced with a Lobaugh Delta, I have too many extras.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

1 hour ago, J. S. Bach said:

Douglass,

 Your workmanship is quite good. However, if I had seen that floating in the 'bay; first, it would now be living in a more southerly state and second, it would have (most likely) been left it as it was as a lot of my older stuff would match it. Painting is such a headache (or too darn expensive) for me. Please note that I do not routinely troll ebay for English/foreign stuff (class 66s excepted; hurry up Dapol) but that one would have appealed to me. However, the trailing truck would probably been replaced with a Lobaugh Delta, I have too many extras.

Thanks Dave,

 

I’m not intending to paint it, just remove the nicotine which would continue to harm the metal. The condition it’s in now is how it will remain.

[Adam88]

https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/steam-engine-no-1450-50142/view_as/grid/search/keyword:ivatt/page/1

 

Leads to this rather pleasant contemporary image.

 

[J. S. Bach]

Hmmm, a proper trailing truck, though not a Delta.

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Turned up two more parts for the fake regulator from steel, consisting of the support for the handle and the handle proper. They came out quite well given that I don’t actually know what they look like as I can’t find a picture of an Ivatt C1 backhead, so I’m basing these of those on the Stirling single. 
 

Not quite all the linkage has been made yet but its coming along.

 

 

 

 

Douglas

[Adam88]

 

Not a brilliant picture, it came from .  I'm sure other RMWeb watchers will be able to do better.  Steam Index is often worth checking out.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Adam88
added link to Steam Index

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, Adam88 said:

 

Not a brilliant picture, it came from .  I'm sure other RMWeb watchers will be able to do better.  Steam Index is often worth checking out.

 

Thank you for that Adam will be looking into getting that book.

[Adam88]

I see that there are more recent books on Great Northern atlantics but do not have these myself. 

 

The worlds locomotives: A digest of the latest locomotive practice in the railway countries of the world by Charles Sidney Lake (Author)

Percival Marshall (1905), 380 pages

 

This is a widely available, popular Edwardian era book with a chapter on atlantics which includes some GA drawings, including of the backhead.  No tender drawings though.  You could try asking or even joining the Great Northern Society, it's the sort of thing the line societies are very good at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Adam88

[sncf231e]

18 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said:

 I don’t actually know what they look like as I can’t find a picture of an Ivatt C1 backhead, so I’m basing these of those on the Stirling single. 
 

 

Douglas

Here is a picture of the backhead of an 00 gauge model of the C1 that was made as a special edition for the National Railway Museum; so I assume this backhead is correctly modelled.

 

Today a newly issued 3-rail tinplate 0 gauge model of the C1 arrived, made by ETS for WJ Vintage (no backhead detailing):

 

Regards

Fred

[Metropolitan H]

And here are a couple of pictures of the real thing - 251, the first and last of the Ivatt "Large Atlantics" - taken today at the new Danum Museum, Library and Gallery in Doncaster.

 

First the best shot I could get of the backhead and regulator handle.

 

The driver's side from the front:

 

The crosshead, slide-bars and works plate on the fireman's side:

 

looking forward along the fireman's side - sorry about the pillars that get in the way, but they hold the upper floors up!

 

There are a few more - as this is one of my all time favourite locos (along with "City of Truro", LSWR No.120, the SNCF 141R and BLS 251 !!!) - but I don't want to get boring so to finish here are a couple of views of the wider "Railway Heritage Gallery"

 

 

 

P.S. - "Green Arrow" is another favourite!

 

Regards

Chris H

[Florence Locomotive Works]

2 hours ago, Metropolitan H said:

And here are a couple of pictures of the real thing - 251, the first and last of the Ivatt "Large Atlantics" - taken today at the new Danum Museum, Library and Gallery in Doncaster.

 

First the best shot I could get of the backhead and regulator handle.

 

The driver's side from the front:

 

The crosshead, slide-bars and works plate on the fireman's side:

 

looking forward along the fireman's side - sorry about the pillars that get in the way, but they hold the upper floors up!

 

There are a few more - as this is one of my all time favourite locos (along with "City of Truro", LSWR No.120, the SNCF 141R and BLS 251 !!!) - but I don't want to get boring so to finish here are a couple of views of the wider "Railway Heritage Gallery"

 

 

 

P.S. - "Green Arrow" is another favourite!

 

Regards

Chris H

Thank you so much for that Chris! Your photos and Adam’s drawings will be very helpful in finishing this off.

 

Speaking of finishing this off, the correct regulator gland fitting was made today, although now I see the arm needs a bend. 
 

 

Always surprises me how big this engine is in real life.

 

Douglas

[doilum]

Very fond memories of the original York museum circa 1960 in the days when the public could climb into the cabs and handle the exhibits. One day I must get round to building at least one of the two Atlantics.

Edited May 29, 2022 by doilum
Predictive text error

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Well a good bit of progress has been made, the backhead is now nearly finished. I’ve also made a reversing lever and integral quadrant, polished to a mirror finish as it would be on a watch. All that’s left is soldering everything into position. 
 

 

 

I’ve also done some research on Arthur Ficke, the original builder. From I can find, he was born in Worksop in 1888, so would have been 62 when he built the engine in 1950.

 

more progress to come.

 

 

Douglas