GWR Platform Length late 20's

[Moria15]

Greetings all...  on the GWR branch lines, specifically South Devon area,  were the platform lengths longer than the longest train scheduled on the line, or could there be an overhang..  ie 4 coach platform but 5 coach train?

 

I'm not taking halts but full stations.   I'm just wondering if there were standards set down for this.

 

Thanks for assistance.

 

Graham

[KeithMacdonald]

There may well have been standards, but it could vary enormously.

e.g. Teignmouth down platform could handle 15 coach trains.

[Cwmtwrch]

Did you have a particular line in mind when you asked this? Most rural south Devon branches had trains which were shorter than the platforms. It seems to have been as common there, as elsewhere, to overestimate the likely traffic when building the line. Anywhere with platforms which were too short on a regular basis would normally see them extended. Alternatively passengers for lightly used station  'X' could be told only to travel in specific coaches which would then always be alongside the platform.

 

So far as I know there were no standards for such things - those were the days when, if an extra 40+ passengers turned up unexpectedly, the train might be delayed slightly while an extra coach was added.

41 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

e.g. Teignmouth down platform could handle 15 coach trains.

Having been extended twice since the 1884 rebuild. However, the Up platform was much shorter since it was never extended.

 

Unless non-corridor stock was in regular use, short platforms were not really a problem, so long as the operators put a coach with a brake van in the middle so that parcels could be dealt with on the platform, or else the train would have to pull forward and stop again. Passengers could sort themselves out by just walking along the corridor - mostly... Two of us in the 1970s arrived on the rather short Up platform at the old Welshpool station to catch our train home, which duly arrived and stopped with the front section on the platform. The problem was we had bicycles with us, and the only van was down at the back, and well off the platform. They pulled forward for us, but missed and had to do it again, resulting in some loss of time. I do sometimes wonder how the guard explained that one in his journal.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cwmtwrch
spelling

[Miss Prism]

A constraint on branch line train length would be any crossing loops on intermediate stations. e.g. 6-coach trains could be seen on the Kingsbridge branch. I think Gara Bridge could probably squeeze in a bit more, but 6 coaches was about the limit for a small Prairie on that line.

 

10 or even 11-coaches were common on the St Ives branch (and most of them 70-footers), and such trains were definitely too long for the intermediate stations, but there were no crossing loops. Newquay trains were often a lot longer than intermediate station platforms.

 

[KingEdwardII]

57 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

on the GWR branch lines, specifically South Devon area

I think that this may depend on the extent to which the branch dealt with holiday traffic.

 

The terminus stations on branches dealing with holiday traffic, such as Kingswear and Kingsbridge, tended to have quite lengthy platforms - for example, it is stated that Kingswear has a platform some 850 feet long (after extension in 1929). These stations often had through services on summer Saturdays from Paddington. There are pictures of a 6 coach through portion from Kingsbridge in 1961 on the Cornwall Railway Society website, for example.

 

Intermediate stations on these branch lines did not necessarily have platforms of equivalent length to that of the terminus.

 

South Devon is similar to other branch lines serving holiday destinations elsewhere, I think. Aberystwyth had a huge station (for the size of the town) with long platforms, only really used to their full extent on summer Saturdays for the holiday traffic.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Rivercider]

I think most of the GWR branch lines in the West Country were originally built by small independent companies, many of which never turned a profit, and were then taken over by the South Devon Railway, Bristol and Exeter Railway, or the GWR. As a result some stations were built too large for traffic that never materialised, while others were built too small by their impoverished owners, and later had to be extended by the GWR.

In model form I am sure you could provide a plausible reason for either a long or short platform,

 

cheers

Edited May 27, 2022 by Rivercider
tidying up.

[Chris M]

I guess this is a sort of "how long is a piece of string" question but the answers have been very good. Its fair to say that even today (and on the main line) there are examples of platforms that are too short for the trains that sometimes stop there. Dawlish Warren is one such example. The platforms were quite long and then shortened back in the 1980s because only local trains ever stopped there. Today the odd London bound IET stops there and this is way too long for the platform.  There are notices where there is no platform stating "Do not alight here" and of course the train manager will be using SDO (Selective Door Opening) when he/she opens the doors. The same applies when the early morning loco hauled Chiltern train stops at Langley Green station, only the doors that have a platform by them are allowed to open. The station has a little SDO sign to remind the train manager about this. If its possible to have platforms that are too sort for trains now then it must have been possible years ago.

 

Many heritage railways run trains that are too long for intermediate stations with of course no SDO and this is allowed by the powers that control all the railways of this country.

[KeithMacdonald]

Re Teignmouth

 

11 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

However, the Up platform was much shorter since it was never extended.

 

But

 

Quote

General goods traffic at Teignmouth ceased on 14 June 1965 but coal traffic continued to be handled until 4 December 1967. This allowed the extension of the second platform to the length of Inter City trains, although this did not happen until 1981.

 

So much depends on the era one has in mind.

[KingEdwardII]

A quote from the Wikipedia entry on Minehead station:

 

"The next major alterations came in 1934 when the original single track line was replaced by a double line to cope with the heavy holiday traffic, and a new signal box built. The platforms were extended at the same time. They were now 1,250 feet (380 m) long"

 

This is supposedly based on info from Mike Oakley's book on Somerset stations. This length is longer than the other stations on the line.

 

This shows the extent of the holiday traffic in relatively small resorts and the lengths the GWR went to accommodate it.

 

Yours, Mike.

[The Stationmaster]

Simple answer - many intermediate stations on branch lines had platforms which were shorter than the longest train or there were specific Instructions limiting train length or stating which coach((es) was(were to be platformed.

 

Taking a couple of 1930s  Cornish examples which I happen have in front of me  -

Penmere Platform  In the Down direction passengers for Penmere were to travel at the front of the train and in the Up direction at the rear of the train; Shepherds - if trains from Newquay consisted of more than one trailer passengers for Shepherds had to travel in the rear passenger vehicle (there was no similar Instruction for Down trains).  

 

There were no other Instructions of this sort for any stations west of Ashburton Jcn however theere various Instructions regarding drawing-up although none of these applied at stations in devon west of ashburton Jcn.  Also on the Ashburton branch trains were in any case limited to a maximum of three passenger vehicles when worked without a Guard.

 

Coming further east passenger trains working Trusham - Chudleigh - Heathfield were restricted to either a motor train or a single brake 3rd.  There were no other specific Instructions relating to passenger length in relation to platform length anywhere else on the GWR in Devon in the 1930s (none published up to late 1938).   Of course the general Rule Book 'catch-all' about ensuring the safety of passengers applied everwhere which would encourage, hopefully, staff to act appropriately as there were no doubt many stations with short platform in relatioon to normnal train length.

 

Things then were very different from today where the general requirement is for platforms to be as long as the trains which regularly call at them.  However even this is subject to a degree of relaxation provided that any longer trains have Selective Door Opening (SDO) which prevents passengers opening the doors where that door is not at a platform.

[Compound2632]

Not a specifically Great Western observation but many platforms at wayside stations seem originally to have been built 300 ft long excluding ramps. 

[Moria15]

Many thanks all :)  Useful info and makes me feel a bit better about my platform length.

 

My train fits within the loop and the signals, but I didn't want to do the platform the entire length :)

 

Regards

 

Graham