Help with identifying Swiss rolling stock?

[Keith Addenbrooke]

My knowledge of Swiss Standard Gauge railways is extremely limited, so I wonder if I might ask for help placing these two items of Swiss TT rolling stock I’ve acquired - they’re not obscure, just new to me:

 

The first is an orange livery 1st class passenger wagon - I think it’s a standard mainline item, so my specific questions are:

 

1.  What is the appropriate era / Epoche for this livery? I ought to know, but there’ll be people here who know the basic dates.  I think it’s a Eurofima Epoche IV livery.  The model looks to be the correct length to me (not a ‘shorty’).

2.  Could it have appeared in Germany on through Services, or even as a through coach on German trains? (I’m sure I’ve seen a video of an express flashing past with an orange coach bringing up the rear - might it have been one of these or similar, or perhaps it wasn’t Swiss at all):

 

 

The second is a sliding wall bogie van.  It was sold with the code “AAE Habbis” but I’m afraid I don’t know what that denotes, sorry:

 

 

(Please ignore the bit of polystyrene packing loose on the roof - I just didn’t spot it until I’d packed away).

 

PanGas are a Swiss chemical company as I understand it.  Any information on when / where these might be seen would be useful, especially if they might also run / have run through Germany.  The two vehicles may not be contemporaneous.

 

I’m happy to do a bit of digging if there’s a good website to check, but as I don’t speak any of the Swiss languages, a pointer in the best direction would be helpful.  As always, thanks, Keith.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Swiss coaches might well have been seen in West Germany on international trains. Era IV is about right, I'd say. That's assuming your layout is set I West, and not East, Germany…

 

Austria and Belgium both had Eurofima coaches in the same colours.

Edited July 7, 2022 by D9020 Nimbus

[Fat Controller]

53 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

My knowledge of Swiss Standard Gauge railways is extremely limited, so I wonder if I might ask for help placing these two items of Swiss TT rolling stock I’ve acquired - they’re not obscure, just new to me:

 

The first is an orange livery 1st class passenger wagon - I think it’s a standard mainline item, so my specific questions are:

 

1.  What is the appropriate era / Epoche for this livery? I ought to know, but there’ll be people here who know the basic dates.  I think it’s a Eurofima Epoche IV livery.  The model looks to be the correct length to me (not a ‘shorty’).

2.  Could it have appeared in Germany on through Services, or even as a through coach on German trains? (I’m sure I’ve seen a video of an express flashing past with an orange coach bringing up the rear - might it have been one of these or similar, or perhaps it wasn’t Swiss at all):

 

 

The second is a sliding wall bogie van.  It was sold with the code “AAE Habbis” but I’m afraid I don’t know what that denotes, sorry:

 

 

(Please ignore the bit of polystyrene packing loose on the roof - I just didn’t spot it until I’d packed away).

 

PanGas are a Swiss chemical company as I understand it.  Any information on when / where these might be seen would be useful, especially if they might also run / have run through Germany.  The two vehicles may not be contemporaneous.

 

I’m happy to do a bit of digging if there’s a good website to check, but as I don’t speak any of the Swiss languages, a pointer in the best direction would be helpful.  As always, thanks, Keith.

AAE were originally a small private German railway, who got into vehicle hire and leasing in a big way in the early 1990s. It was they who were responsible for the low-floored Megafret container carriers, to be seen all over the UK. 'Habbis' is the UIC equivalent to UK TOPS code, but generally has more info. The 'H' shows it is a covered wagon. Here is a more detailed description;-

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_goods_wagons

[Gordonwis]

Swiss Eurofima in orange:

 

 

 

The coaches were delivered in as part of a Europe wide order for modern international coaches, but SBB only took delivery of 20 1st class examples.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima_coach

 

They ran across borders . The Swiss ones didn't run in Germany that much but they did run on the Zurich - Munchen route:

 

https://bundesbahnbilder.blogspot.com/2017/09/mini-exkurs-schweiz.html

Edited July 7, 2022 by Gordonwis

[Gordonwis]

Pangas wagons

 

The UIC wagon reference code is actually Habbilns

 

AAE stands for Ahaus Alstatter Eisenbahn, a short private railway in the Frisian area on the north coast of Germany. As has been said they have since become a huge wagon leasing firm. I watched 68-AAE registered container wagons on a Felixstowe - Trafford liner at humble Camden Road station on the North London Line on Tuesday

 

I've seen them in Switzerland but not outside Switzerland. Here's the real thing

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Gordonwis

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you to all - as always, all very helpful responses.

 

18 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Swiss coaches might well have been seen in West Germany on international trains. Era IV is about right, I'd say. That's assuming your layout is set I West, and not East, Germany…

 

Austria and Belgium both had Eurofima coaches in the same colours.

Good point - East Germany / DR layouts are better served with TT, partly for historical reasons, but not just with the older Berliner TT-Bahnen products.  Current manufacturers (incl. Arnold) still seem to have quite a focus on the DR, quite possibly to appeal to existing modellers / established markets where N Scale was less popular.

 

17 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

AAE were originally a small private German railway, who got into vehicle hire and leasing in a big way in the early 1990s. It was they who were responsible for the low-floored Megafret container carriers, to be seen all over the UK. 'Habbis' is the UIC equivalent to UK TOPS code, but generally has more info. The 'H' shows it is a covered wagon. Here is a more detailed description;-

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_goods_wagons

Thank you - helpful link.

 

11 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Swiss Eurofima in orange:

 

 

 

The coaches were delivered in as part of a Europe wide order for modern international coaches, but SBB only took delivery of 20 1st class examples.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima_coach

 

They ran across borders . The Swiss ones didn't run in Germany that much but they did run on the Zurich - Munchen route:

 

https://bundesbahnbilder.blogspot.com/2017/09/mini-exkurs-schweiz.html

That explains why I’ve not seen equivalent orange 2nd Class or B coaches with Swiss markings.

 

11 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Pangas wagons

 

The UIC wagon reference code is actually Habbilns

 

AAE stands for Ahaus Alstatter Eisenbahn, a short private railway in the Frisian area on the north coast of Germany. As has been said they have since become a huge wagon leasing firm. I watched 68-AAE registered container wagons on a Felixstowe - Trafford liner at humble Camden Road station on the North London Line on Tuesday

 

I've seen them in Switzerland but not outside Switzerland. Here's the real thing

 

 

 

 

Got it:

 

 

There’s so much information on the wagon side, and most of it I can’t read with the naked eye anyway, but under camera magnification I can see the Habbillns in TT scale, even if my photo isn’t very clear.  Thanks, Keith.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I hope it’s OK to reuse a thread from last year for a new query, this time in HO (do let me know if it would be less confusing to start again, as I’m asking about a different scale).

 

I’ve been idly browsing the internet* and came across some Fleischmann HO Double deck SBB coaches (AB has code 5133k, and B only has 5134k - a Steuerwagen is also available).  It’s given me three question to ask, if I may:

 

1.  The livery is dark blue with a large white centre band and yellow doors.  I’m wondering if this livery relates to a particular epoch, service, or area?  The photos I’ve found online of similar passenger cars on the Zürich S-Bahn have red doors.

 

2.  What sort of power might be appropriate - I think there’s a 450 class but am not sure?

 

3.  More generally, these coaches measure in at 282mm which scales at 1:93.5 for a standard 26.4m car.  I understand Fleischmann did use 1:93.5 for their ‘shortie’ cars in HO, but I was wondering if this was standard across their range (ie: assume this is the case unless otherwise stated), or was it just for some models?

 

Hope it’s OK to ask.  Some will know I brought my American HO out of storage after I stepped back from N-Gauge, but I still find the variety of Swiss railways / modelling fascinating, even if it means I have a lot of questions.  Hope that’s OK, Keith.

 

(*wallet firmly out of reach, for now at least)

Edited February 17, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Gordonwis]

10 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I hope it’s OK to reuse a thread from last year for a new query, this time in HO (do let me know if it would be less confusing to start again, as I’m asking about a different scale).

 

I’ve been idly browsing the internet* and came across some Fleischmann HO Double deck SBB coaches (AB has code 5133k, and B only has 5134k - a Steuerwagen is also available).  It’s given me three question to ask, if I may:

 

1.  The livery is dark blue with a large white centre band and yellow doors.  I’m wondering if this livery relates to a particular epoch, service, or area?  The photos I’ve found online of similar passenger cars on the Zürich S-Bahn have red doors.

 

 

 

 

Hi Keith,

 

These are the Zurich S Bahn double deckers. They originally ran in fixed rakes of three (driving trailer - centre coach - centre coach - bespoke single cab loco (Re450) usually in pairs to form a train of 6 coaches with 2 locos (locos not adjacent). The Lion project saw them deployed in sets of six centre cars with a rebuilt Re420.200 LION loco top and tail.

 

Both types of rake currently operate, but still exclusively on Zurich S-Bahn (and extensions of same such as RE Zurich - Aarau)

 

The original yellow doors are now red

 

So a lot depends on the era you want to portray

 

Here's one of my shots - Othmarsingen, October 2015

 

 

 

 

  

Edited February 18, 2023 by Gordonwis

[chb2488]

Hello Keith

 

The models from Fleischmann were later reused by Roco for their AC HVZ-sets, their DC-sets use scale length Tillig coaches. While the Re 450 were being delivered, rakes comprising of B-AB-B-B-AB-B were being hauled by Ae 6/6 and Re 4/4 II for use as peak time extras. In some cases, Dosto coaches made it into sets with EW I & II. Today‘s DPZ use an NDW B coach, which (in H0) is available from HUI Modellbau.

 

Best regards

 

Christian

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you @Gordonwis and @chb2488, really helpful and appreciated.  I’ve now found some online videos of the ZVV with the four car version: 450 B AB B (Steuerwagen).  The ones I’ve seen so far all have the newer red doors.  It’s the first time I’ve come across the ZVV and I could see how these trains could form an attractive model (with HO being larger a four car train can be a real blessing).

 

On this occasion I think my wallet can stay closed, as the Zurich area is a bit out of range for my personal interests.  I recently bought a Faller HO kit thinking it could form a centrepiece for an HOe / HO interchange station inspired by Zell am See in Austria (where we honeymooned).  Going by the marketing name thought it was freelance, only to discover it’s a model of the BLS station at Ostermundigen near Bern (and has previously been sold as such).  It’s currently part completed on my workbench in our spare room:

 

 

(Note: my choice of colour for the upper floor rendering is a bit darker than the prototype - it’s a colour I had ‘in stock’ and as I’m slightly colour blind I can get away with it for home use).  All good fun.  Thanks again, Keith.

[Gordonwis]

On 18/02/2023 at 13:16, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 Going by the marketing name thought it was freelance, only to discover it’s a model of the BLS station at Ostermundigen near Bern (and has previously been sold as such).  

 

 

In fact the design was used all along the Bern - Frutigen railway, later extended over the Lotschberg!) . The original terminus station building at Frutigen  is in this style (survived and has been refurbished as a BLS visitor centre: https://www.bls.ch/de/freizeit-und-ferien/events/bls-besucherwesen-besucherzentrum-frutigen)

 

.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Keith Addenbrooke]

7 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

 

 

In fact the design was used all along the Bern - Frutigen railway, later extended over the Lotschberg!) . The original terminus station building at Frutigen  is in this style (survived and has been refurbished as a BLS visitor centre: https://www.bls.ch/de/freizeit-und-ferien/events/bls-besucherwesen-besucherzentrum-frutigen)

 

.

Thanks Gordon - looks like I struck lucky with this one 🙂, Keith.

[Samedan]

@Keith Addenbrooke what name is the Faller Ostermundigen model being marketed under now, please? ( In HO). I’ve looked at this building for my standard and metre gauge interchange station, in HO. It’s an attractive design and would suit the imaginary lakeside town location I’m modelling, where I don’t want a timber, “Alpine chalet” type of building. But it is quite deep (front to back measurement) and the road side frontage, which would face the viewer on my layout, is relatively plain. I may end up having to adapt that or another kit, or scratch build, to achieve what I want.

@Gordonwis I wasn’t aware of the old terminal building at Frutigen. The buildings on this line do have an attractive house style. 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

1 hour ago, Samedan said:

@Keith Addenbrooke what name is the Faller Ostermundigen model being marketed under now, please? ( In HO). I’ve looked at this building for my standard and metre gauge interchange station, in HO. It’s an attractive design and would suit the imaginary lakeside town location I’m modelling, where I don’t want a timber, “Alpine chalet” type of building. But it is quite deep (front to back measurement) and the road side frontage, which would face the viewer on my layout, is relatively plain. I may end up having to adapt that or another kit, or scratch build, to achieve what I want.

@Gordonwis I wasn’t aware of the old terminal building at Frutigen. The buildings on this line do have an attractive house style. 

Hi there, “Bahnhof Burgschwabach” (191761).  It is in the current range and shown on the Faller website as available.

 

The overall size of the kit  is quoted as: 360mm x 236mm x 177mm (height).

 

 

 

(Pictures from my Narrow Gauge thread - the ‘bits’ photo was taken before I began, not just what I’ve got left to do!)

The awning could be left off if not needed, and the stairs to the underpass don’t have to be fitted - in my case I have an island platform with an awning too so I want to include both features.  Hope that helps, Keith.