Woodburn / Longwitton (was Billingborough)

[North Eastern]

Hope these are some use to you.

 

[North Eastern]

Some more photos

[Richard Hall]

On 30/01/2023 at 17:21, North Eastern said:

Hope these are some use to you.

 

 

Thanks you so much for these, a few there that I hadn't seen before and will be studying very carefully for details I had not spotted previously.

 

Very little to report due to work commitments.  I was hoping to have some track down in time for the most recent Norfolk AG meet, but no such luck.  Last weekend I cobbled together some baseboard trestles but they are a bit too long (no problem for a man with a saw) and the whole thing wobbles like a jelly (a bit more of a problem for someone whose carpentry skills don't extend much beyond sawing things in half). I think I need to put some bracing stays in. One of the nice things about a circular layout is that the baseboards are impressively rigid when bolted together.

 

The last of the three-way points is nearly done, just blades to make up.  I finally bought a 0.5mm file at horrendous expense and it has proved invaluable for easing checkrail and crossing clearances.  I might get something running yet.

 

Richard

[Richard Hall]

A little bit of progress:

 

 

I shortened the trestles a bit, put in some bracing and attached an adjustable rubber foot to each one so that the whole thing rests on three (adjustable) points.  It's as close as I am going to get to making Flexichas principles work in 2mm. It still wobbles due to the uprights flexing, perhaps I should have used 2x2 instead of 2x1.  But it isn't a big problem for now.

 

Next job was to lay out the Templot prints for the trackbed.  I have three different rail heights (PCB, wood sleepers, concrete sleepers) and about 0.2mm between each one.  So I printed the templates on 180gsm card which is about 0.2mm thick and used one, two or three thicknesses as appropriate.

 

Every tried laying out a perfect circle of Templot templates?  It isn't easy.  I started out by printing them on paper, laying them on the boards and then fiddling until I thought I had the alignment right.  But by the time I was three-quarters of the way round replacing paper templates with card it was obvious that an error had crept in and my two ends were not going to meet in the middle or anything like.

 

On close inspection I spotted a slight dogleg where two templates joined just past the crossover: luckily this was all 2/3 layer trackbed and I was able to make a correction on the second layer as you can see on the left hand side of the photo.  There is still a slight misalignment but it is right in the middle of the storage loops and very easy to adjust out when I lay the track there.

 

Templates were glued down using PVA spread with a mini-roller, then another layer of PVA to seal them.  There are a few spots where the wet card has cockled up but nothing concerning.  I'll leave it to dry thoroughly, lightly sand the trackbed, give it another PVA coat for luck, then I can start drilling holes for point mechanisms and so on.  I plan to lay the crossover first and then work outwards. I probably ought to dismantle the boards before I start, just to make sure I haven't got too much PVA between the board joins.

 

Not quite a model railway yet, but heading in the right direction.  About a month to the next Norfolk area group meeting so I had better crack on.

 

Richard

[Caley Jim]

I'd recommend you keep the two adjacent boards fixed together and lay the track right across the joint. Then cut through the rails with a razor saw before separating the boards. That way you will get a smooth alignment over the board joint. 

 

Jim 

[Izzy]

To add to Jim's wise advise if I may I also drill and pin the first couple of sleepers either side of the joint before cutting - not  sure if you're using soldered or easitrac here - as in the past I've caught the rail whilst cutting and ripped the rail up, which of course isn't really very helpful.....

 

Bob

[Donw]

Regarding the legs a 2inch strip of 6mm ply nailed to the 2x1s on the 1inch side should stop them flexing if indeed that is the problem the fixing to the baseboard msy have a little give in it.

 

Don

[Richard Hall]

Thank you everyone for your input.  I was a bit unclear there: the idea of dismantling the boards is just to ensure they are not stuck together from laying the templates.  I will then reassemble them for tracklaying.  I am going to try the cast brass sleepers across the board joins, glued down with epoxy and the rails cut once everything has set.

 

Good idea on the plywood, Don: I have a pile of offcuts from "Stobs" stacked up next to the layout but I hadn't thought about using them.

 

Richard

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Richard Hall said:

Thank you everyone for your input.  I was a bit unclear there: the idea of dismantling the boards is just to ensure they are not stuck together from laying the templates.  I will then reassemble them for tracklaying.  I am going to try the cast brass sleepers across the board joins, glued down with epoxy and the rails cut once everything has set. 

On Kirkallanmuir I put a couple of brass screws under each of the brass sleepers and soldered the sleepers securely to them. 

 

Jim

[Richard Hall]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

On Kirkallanmuir I put a couple of brass screws under each of the brass sleepers and soldered the sleepers securely to them. 

 

Jim

I like that idea very much.  On N gauge layouts I have soldered the rails direct to brass screws but it is hard to disguise the result. 

 

Richard

[Richard Hall]

Headed more or less in the right direction.  I took a day off for my birthday and got all the track laid.  Easitrac glue is great, I wish I had discovered it earlier.

 

 

One potential problem.  I'm doing all this at my workshop which is 45 minutes from home.  I was about to start tracklaying and realised I had left my nice brass sleepers behind.  It then occurred to me that one of my baseboard joints was right in the middle of the concrete sleeper section so I couldn't use the brass sleepers for that one anyway.  So I have just laid the track across the joins and will mainly rely on the ballast to hold everything rigid when I cut through the rails. I might insert some nickel silver pins vertically into the board and solder the rail ends to them: I have had to do this at the join between the two lengths of concrete sleeper track to deal with a slight misalignment caused by the non-standard construction method for this bit of track.

 

I managed to get enough wire droppers soldered in to be able to run my J39 a few feet back and forth at the Norfolk AG meet last Sunday.  Since then I have been adding more droppers and installing the point motors and relays for the crossover:

 

 

Wiring follows my usual method, two substantial busbars of tinned copper wire, with single core droppers.  Point motors are the MERG micro servo based units, controlled by a MERG control board, with a Chinese relay board for frog polarity switching.  Very cheap, easily adjustable for speed and travel, and reliable so far on "Longframlington" under exhibition conditions.  Longfram did its last show in late 2019: I dug it out of its storage box a couple of months ago, powered it up and everything still worked.

 

I can now run trains through the entire scenic section which has thrown up a couple of issues.  Firstly one of the points is slightly narrow to gauge at one spot.  With the mixed plastic / soldered construction I am hoping I can soften the plastic chairs with solvent and ease out the gauge with a soldering iron on the brass chairs.  It isn't far out, just enough for a light four-wheeled wagon to ride up over the top of the blade close to where it meets the stock rail.

 

Second issue is a lack of anything to run.  My diesel haas wheels slightly too small, so the sandpipes catch on the crossings, and 7.5mm wheesets are out of stock at the moment.  The J39 is rubbish in various ways: back to back too narrow, not enough sideplay on the centre axle, and lacking in adhesion. So I'm reworking the Jinty chassis for rigid suspension and pondering a North Eastern J27: same wheelbase, same driving wheel diameter...

 

Richard

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Richard Hall said:

It isn't far out, just enough for a light four-wheeled wagon to ride up over the top of the blade close to where it meets the stock rail.

I always use a button gauge between the tip of the first switch fitted and the opposite stock rail to ensure the gauge isn't tight.  Second switch is then fitted with it's tip no further away from the crossing than the first.

 

Jim

[Richard Hall]

Even a few feet of usable track provides a good boost to morale, and this morning I have been trying to do something about the motive power shortage by fettling the Jinty. I found among other things that the right hand centre axle bearing sat fractionally lower in the frame than the others, so only the centre driver on that side was in contact with the track.  So I had to remove the wheels, carefully elongate the hole in the frame, refit the bush and then do the quartering all over again, and now found that the chassis was slightly twisted longitudinally.  I gently corrected it with a pair of pliers at each end, fiddled with the quartering some more, straightened a wheel that was fractionally off-square in the muff, and finally I have the thing running well enough that I dare not fiddle with it any more, apart from that I will fit Simpson springs as it sometimes stalls even on plain straight track.

 

I'm still not sure what to do with it: the Gem body is a bit out in its dimensions and does not quite capture the appearance of a Jinty.  And in any case Jinties were unknown north of Newcastle. But it will do nicely for track testing, and if it behaves itself I might one day build a micro layout for it.

[Richard Hall]

Field trip for what might kindly be described as a slow-burn layout build.  Sixty years on from closure and the remaining wooden bits are steadily decomposing but the road bridge remains in good fettle.

 

 

 

I'm slowly working my way through the wiring as I get time: I can now run the Jinty through the entire scenic section without it stalling or derailing.  The servo motors for the fiddle yard points are in place as are the inter-board connectors: I'm using the same DB25 connectors as Longframlington, in fact almost all the electrics (handheld control unit, power supply, connecting cables) are shared with the earlier layout.  

 

The motive power department has acquired a motorless Farish 2MT to be rewheeled when I get round to it.  I'll probably put a flat can in the tender as I did with Longframlington's 2MT: my old AMR feedback controller gives exceptional slow speed control with larger iron core motors but really doesn't like coreless motors. I thought about going DCC with this layout but squeezing a chip into a J21 or J25 is a challenge too far.

 

Richard

[Richard Hall]

A significant milestone:

 

 

After leaving Longwitton propped up against a cupboard all summer I finally found the time and enthusiasm to blitz the wiring, result being that I can now run trains.  There are a few rough bits in the pointwork but I am slowly working through them and soon had the 2MT and a few wagons ambling round without falling off the track too often.

 

The 2MT runs terribly and limps like a three-legged donkey, and the J39 won't run at all on Longwitton as I forgot to build any sideplay into the centre axle, so it only goes in straight lines.  Now I have a test track I can put a bit of effort into getting one or the other to work properly.  My rewheeled Farish diesel runs very nicely but that feels like cheating somehow.

[Clive martin]

Great to see that  you have got Longwitton up and running ,that 2mt and short rake of wagons look well at home ,in 4 mm scale rtr we are very lucky that oxford rail have produced a J27 a signature locomotive for the Rothbury branch,i realy admire your skill building your own track something i just dont have the talent to do myself!

[Richard Hall]

D5177 demonstrates why 2mm is very much easier if you just have diesels. It really is a lovely runner, and all I had to do was change the wheelsets. Meanwhile the Ivatt 2MT is steadily improving but still derails for no obvious reason when running tender-first. I'll get there eventually.

 

 

[Clive martin]

That class 25 runs very well ,i am also going to use diesels on my 4 mm scale longwitton i have a 2 car class 101 dmu a type that did in fact make it to Rothbury on the odd special , a class 25 and also a class 17 clayton will be used not sure if either of these types ever ran on the Rothbury branch but both types did run in northumberland ,i thought about an Bachmann 2mt but it seems these can be poor runners judging from the feedback i have seen !enjoying seeing your longwitton come to life.

[Richard Hall]

22 hours ago, Clive martin said:

That class 25 runs very well ,i am also going to use diesels on my 4 mm scale longwitton i have a 2 car class 101 dmu a type that did in fact make it to Rothbury on the odd special , a class 25 and also a class 17 clayton will be used not sure if either of these types ever ran on the Rothbury branch but both types did run in northumberland ,i thought about an Bachmann 2mt but it seems these can be poor runners judging from the feedback i have seen !enjoying seeing your longwitton come to life.

D5177 worked military trains through to Woodburn on at least two occasions.  I don't think it worked the Rothbury branch although class 25s were RA5, the same as a J27.  Gateshead had a handful of class 24s from new in 1960 which could have turned up at Rothbury in theory, but the Claytons did not arrive until after the branch closed. Steamwise the Bachmann / TMC G5 is perfect, just needs a non-corridor Gresley or Thompson brake third to go with it.  Only one: the Rothbury passenger service finished in 1952 because no-one used it any more.

[Clive martin]

They say you learn something new every day,i had no idea that tmc/ Bachmann have produced a G5 this is something that has never been on my radar i am very much a diesel and electric man i only have 3 steam locomotives in my collection as my main interest is classic BR diesel traction ,i could be tempted to a G5 ,i think i will run my Longwitton like Ian Mandersons Hartburn with a scenario of the branch staying open a few years longer allowing the use of a few diesels!

[Richard Hall]

I'm glad I haven't committed to taking Longwitton anywhere yet as progress has been frankly rather feeble.  I have run into all kinds of problems with my point operating mechanisms resulting in a couple of blades parting company with the droppers: I may have to rework them which is a little daunting at the moment.  Over Christmas I thought I would tackle a couple of the structures, not that there are many.  I now have a station building and platelayers' hut, both built from Plastikard sheet and strip.

 

 

I am now working on a road bridge using the ancient Peco mouldings as a starting point.  The Peco model dates back to the very early days of British N Gauge and is a little oversized but I think I can do something with it. I need to get the backboards finished, then I can break the layout down and take one section home at a time to work on.

 

@GER_Jon has been working on a grounded coach body for the station platform, which just leaves a couple of small sheds and that cast iron urinal. I am very surprised no-one has done the panels for those as an etching yet: any volunteers?

 

Richard

 

Richard

[Clive martin]

Hi Richard your buildings look superb,could i be cheeky and ask you what colours you have used for your station building ,from the research i have done it looks like it could be blue with white window frames ,i will be very grateful for any advise you can give me ,its great to see you making more progress on your Longwitton project.