GFYE TOPS class 76's?

[rodent279]

I believe a couple of 76's received green with full yellow ends-which ones? And did any of these get TOPS numbers whilst still in green?

Thanks in advance,

Neil

[keefer]

E26008/31/34 were GFYE and 34 may have been so with TOPS.

From this old thread:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/90856-class-76-e26034-in-the-early-1970s/?do=findComment&comment=1607082

Edited August 26, 2022 by keefer

[rodent279]

Thanks. I'm building a D.C. Kits EM1 kit, and am at the painting the bodyshell stage. Looks like I need to go for 031 then, as the other 2 have MU jumpers. I might just invoke Rule 1 though, and put TOPS numbers on it.....🤓

Edited August 27, 2022 by rodent279

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, keefer said:

E26008/31/34 were GFYE and 34 may have been so with TOPS.

From this old thread:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/90856-class-76-e26034-in-the-early-1970s/?do=findComment&comment=1607082

Here's 034 in 1975, without MU jumpers. Is that green or blue? I'd say blue, but you could be forgiven for thinking green. It's perhaps a little clean to be an oldcoat of green about to be painted blue.

 

 

[Halvarras]

By strange coincidence I was looking through Strathwood's 'Seventies Diesel and Electric Days Remembered II' just this afternoon for the first time in ages, and page 26 shows E26008 in BFYE livery with BR arrow logos and the old serif style numbers in 1970, so this one could not have been TOPS green. The number style would suggest a repaint into blue too early to have carried GFYE livery beforehand, but in the sometimes wacky world of BR liveries it is just possible, especially if its works overhaul somehow gave it serif numbers in 1968, allowing it a greater opportunity to achieve GFYE before being called in.

 

In his book 'BR: From Green to Blue' Russell Saxton is of the opinion that only 26031 carried GFYE and was withdrawn in this livery in September 1971* - this would leave 26034 out of the frame, however even Russell was occasionally finding livery oddities he previously knew nothing about - but any photo of 26034 in blue would discount it having run in TOPS green.

 

*The loco which became 76031 had originally been 26044/76044. 

[rodent279]

It's interesting to note that in the above photo of 034, although it hasn't got MU jumpers, it has got the modified front handrail shape ready to accommodate them.

[Pandora]

From Flickr

E26056 FYE,  check the colour and post your opinion:

 

 

[rodent279]

20 minutes ago, Pandora said:

From Flickr

E26056 FYE,  check the colour and post your opinion:

 

 

On balance, I'd still say it's blue, but it's not conclusive.

[keefer]

5 hours ago, rodent279 said:

It's interesting to note that in the above photo of 034, although it hasn't got MU jumpers, it has got the modified front handrail shape ready to accommodate them.

In the Flickr comments, someone is suggesting photo trickery as the vacuum pipe is 'missing'. However, a close look at the pic shows air pipes on the bufferbeam - so it's become air-brake only (which was mainly the MU fitted ones?)

[Pandora]

7 hours ago, rodent279 said:

On balance, I'd still say it's blue, but it's not conclusive.

Noting the Tommy in the background, around 1970, a number of diesel shunter 08 locos in Manchester Longsight/Reddish area had some unusual shades of Rail Blue, we spotters gave it the name of Manchester Blue, there were comments  about the colour in the Railway Magazine Traffic & Traction notes, the colour could not be  down to too many trips through the carriage washing plant, the locos were fresh and shiny. The Tommy in the background triggered memories of sightings of  "Manchester Blue"  Were 08 diesels repainted at depots,  or was it a Works task?

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, Pandora said:

Noting the Tommy in the background, around 1970, a number of diesel shunter 08 locos in Manchester Longsight/Reddish area had some unusual shades of Rail Blue, we spotters gave it the name of Manchester Blue, there were comments  about the colour in the Railway Magazine Traffic & Traction notes, the colour could not be  down to too many trips through the carriage washing plant, the locos were fresh and shiny. The Tommy in the background triggered memories of sightings of  "Manchester Blue"  Were 08 diesels repainted at depots,  or was it a Works task?

 

I know the ones you mean - on a trip up that way in 1973 I noted 3988, 4136 & 4144 like this (I've seen a photo of 4145 too, in one of those short-lived Modern Railway Modelling (MRM) magazines, anyone remember those?) They had a paler looking blue and also yellow in the wasp stripes, full-length black roofs and red bufferbeams and coupling rods I believe - not sure if all were like this, perhaps somebody familiar with them at the time could confirm. Numbers were all block serif without D prefix. 4144 at least had back-to-front cabside BR logos which it retained when renumbered 08914.

I would expect these to have been a depot repaint initiative, I can't imagine a main works turning them out like that.

[rodent279]

6 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

I know the ones you mean - on a trip up that way in 1973 I noted 3988, 4136 & 4144 like this (I've seen a photo of 4145 too, in one of those short-lived Modern Railway Modelling (MRM) magazines, anyone remember those?) They had a paler looking blue and also yellow in the wasp stripes, full-length black roofs and red bufferbeams and coupling rods I believe - not sure if all were like this, perhaps somebody familiar with them at the time could confirm. Numbers were all block serif without D prefix. 4144 at least had back-to-front cabside BR logos which it retained when renumbered 08914.

I would expect these to have been a depot repaint initiative, I can't imagine a main works turning them out like that.

Getting OT here, but voilà:-

 

 

 

[Pandora]

The order for the EM2 fleet was 30 (cannot remember the exact figure) ,  the order was cut back to 7, the paperwork for the amended order has  the signature of Freddie Harrison, a Gresley bright young man, to become CME of BR.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the why 30 EM2 locos were required, what was in their mind?      I do not believe they were for the ECML,as we can see the LNER thinking was dieselisation. In  any case the route mileage  KX to Scotland would be quite costly.

A shorter route would fit the bill,  London Liverpool Street to Norwich express services,  extending  the Great Eastern 1500 VDC suburban scheme to  Norfolk.

Does anyone have any papers which show light on the reason for the prosal of a large fleet of the EM2 loco, whee were they intended to operate?

 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Pandora

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Getting OT here, but voilà:-

 

 

 

 

Interesting.....this was 4145, the one pictured in MRM but I'm sure that showed the other side which had correct logos, so it must have had these applied differently on each side. 4144 (08914) may well have been the same then (the photo I've seen was of this side) and possibly all of these 'Manchester Blue' 08s were like this. Perhaps the painters took their lead from the funnels of contemporary Cross-Channel ferries.......

But OT as you say, so to steer it back to Class 76 I noticed in the afore-mentioned Strathwood 'Seventies' book that E26025 was one of the several to receive blue with BR lion-and-wheel emblems but it unusually got the smaller version. Just thought I'd chuck this minor detail into the mix 🙂

 

[rodent279]

On 27/08/2022 at 08:15, Pandora said:

From Flickr

E26056 FYE,  check the colour and post your opinion:

 

 

 

 

On 27/08/2022 at 08:36, rodent279 said:

On balance, I'd still say it's blue, but it's not conclusive.

 

 

19 hours ago, Pandora said:

Noting the Tommy in the background, around 1970, a number of diesel shunter 08 locos in Manchester Longsight/Reddish area had some unusual shades of Rail Blue, we spotters gave it the name of Manchester Blue, there were comments  about the colour in the Railway Magazine Traffic & Traction notes, the colour could not be  down to too many trips through the carriage washing plant, the locos were fresh and shiny. The Tommy in the background triggered memories of sightings of  "Manchester Blue"  Were 08 diesels repainted at depots,  or was it a Works task?

 

In fact, looking at the shiny coat of yellow, white handrails and clean roof, I'd say 26056 is ex-works blue. The shiny blue surface may be reflecting the green, and the bright yellow may be doing funny things to the brain's perception of colour.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

On 27/08/2022 at 08:36, rodent279 said:

On balance, I'd still say it's blue, but it's not conclusive.

It's the TOPS panel that does it for me. As far as I am aware, TOPS panels were only ever in blue (but I am sure someone will tell me I am wrong 😃).

[rodent279]

There's  a photo on flickr, which frustratingly I can't post a link to, of E26050 in what looks very much like BYSP, with BR totems. Was that really a thing, or is it green that looks like blue? The photo is by Gordon Edgar.

[keefer]

This one?

Stentor by Gordon Edgar on Flickr.

 

Looks BSYP to me, it's discussed in the Flickr comments.

[russ p]

5 minutes ago, keefer said:

This one?

Stentor by Gordon Edgar on Flickr.

 

Looks BSYP to me, it's discussed in the Flickr comments.

 

That's some dent down its side. Was that ever repaired as those things were built from pretty thick gauge steel so any repair wouldn't be easy

[rodent279]

24 minutes ago, keefer said:

This one?

Stentor by Gordon Edgar on Flickr.

 

Looks BSYP to me, it's discussed in the Flickr comments.

That's the one,I couldn't share from Flickr. Certainly does look BSYP to me. There's  another on flickr of 26022, with SYP, but not easy to tell whether its blue or green.

Did many get BSYP? This is the only convincing one I've found.

[Johann Marsbar]

One of the blue 76's retained the lion & wheel totem right to the end (1981).

By that time, the E number was starting to show through at one end as well...

 

[97406]

1 minute ago, Johann Marsbar said:

One of the blue 76's retained the lion & wheel totem right to the end (1981).

By that time, the E number was starting to show through at one end as well...

 

 

I picked up the Heljan model of the above at the Alexandra Palace show, so it's nice to see a picture of the original. Need to blacken the cab door handrails some more. Note that I lowered the pans on the 25kV electrics before reenergising the catenary to 1500V DC!

 

[keefer]

Was just going to say that it was 022 that kept its BR Totem until the end.

Regarding renumbering, there was no guarantee any two locos were treated the same - often the 'E2' was just covered over with a new '7', but in one case at least kept the old-style numbers with a new Corporate typeface '7'!

Serif or corporate numbers, with or without the 'E', it's another minefield of its own!

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by keefer

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, russ p said:

 

That's some dent down its side. Was that ever repaired as those things were built from pretty thick gauge steel so any repair wouldn't be easy

In service with the dent in 1969:-

 

35 minutes ago, keefer said:

but in one case at least kept the old-style numbers with a new Corporate typeface '7'!

That was 76057.

[rodent279]

Found another BSYP example, this time E26019. Again, I can't share it.