Broad Sidlinch, Holt Station NNR

[PaulG]

Broad Sidlinch S&D 4mm/OO,  Holt Station,  NNR.

 

The model railway operates from about 9.30am until 5pm throughtout the NNR operating season. 

Recently two of the Bachmann S&D 7F 2-8-0 have had to have new motors fitted and a Bachmann BR Standard 4-6-0 new motion, which shows the wear the stock gets.

We're also fitting brass bearings to all of the rolling stock, as the plastic axle boxes wear to an oval and the wheels bind on the underframe!

We are looking to add further locos and from Brian Macdermott S&D modelling book, an LMS 4F 0-6-0 would be an ideal buy, but which one Hornby or Bachmann?

 

I've not seen a review comparing the two models, and is one model more appropriate to the S&D in 1950s/60s?

I'm fairly knowledgeable on railways of East Anglia, and in particular Colchester c1950s, but S&D is a learning curve!

Any comments most welcome. 

Current project is the dairy seen in the photos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by PaulG

[PaulG]

Further to my post above, after exchange of emails with Brian Macdermott, study of the dozen or so S&D books we have collected, and a bit of "Googling", we opted  for a Bachmann 4F (31-871) 43875 which, according to "The District Controllers View", was allocated to Bath Green Park until February 1952, before moving on to Saltley.

 

 

The prototype photo (sorry I didn't note copyright/original poster) in the Google search is off RMWeb, but I didn't find it when I searched this site originally!

 

 

A new loco is definitely needed on the layout, as yesterday the Hornby WC 4-6-2 had to be withdrawn in need of possibly a new motor, and the Bachmann 3F 0-6-0 is already in for attention!

 

Paul

 

Looking for something else prototype photo is off SmugMug 43875 Bristol August 1951 Fowler 4F Midland Railway design 0-6-0.jpg

Edited October 19, 2022 by PaulG
Source of prototype photo added.

[ITG]

I have that exact Bachmann loco (same number) and it runs well, at all speeds on DCC. Good luck with it.

[geoffers]

Good choice. Was going to suggest a RH drive Bachmann 4F. I have three, all renumbered 44102, 44559, and 44561, Nice locos especially when weathered. Popped into Holt during the Autumn Showcase and you have done some sterling work on the layout. Really nice to see. 

[PaulG]

1 minute ago, geoffers said:

Good choice. Was going to suggest a RH drive Bachmann 4F. I have three, all renumbered 44102, 44559, and 44561, Nice locos especially when weathered. Popped into Holt during the Autumn Showcase and you have done some sterling work on the layout. Really nice to see. 

Thank you for your comments. 

 

We shut the model railway at the end of October and don't reopen until the NNR Spring Gala 2023.

 

During those few months this year we plan to totally rewire the layout, a job we have been putting off for years!

 

Paul

[geoffers]

Good luck with that!! My own DCC layout is based on the S&D, a railway which I was familiar with as I lived close to Bailey Gate Station. 

[PaulG]

5 hours ago, geoffers said:

Good luck with that!! My own DCC layout is based on the S&D, a railway which I was familiar with as I lived close to Bailey Gate Station. 

Broad Sidlinch was originally built by Julian Briley in c1990 and donated to the NNR about 25 years ago.

 

By 2016 the layout was in a very poor condition. The scenery had been made of papier-mache over chicken wire, which was rusting and collapsing.

 

The "brief" was to leave the track as laid by Julian and rebuild the scenery.

 

By late summer 2016, all the scenery had been removed to bare baseboard, the baseboards strengthened and the rebuild began using Celotex offcut sheets, carved as required,  covered with plaster bandage, scatter materials and static grass.

 

Because of  damp in the building and costs, the building structures are in the main laser cut timber kits overlayed with plastic brick/stone etc, or from scratch using pasticard sheets. We have resorted to a few RTR resin buildings, but the costs are prohibitive.

 

Over the last 12 months we have altered some trackwork; the station goods yard has been reconfigured, to include a dairy, currently under construction, and the fiddle yard layout altered, to improve access.

 

One aspect we haven't addressed is the wiring, and this is going to be our winter project.

 

With the rebuild we have tried to keep to Julian aim of a S&D model, with Somerset/Dorset landscape and buildings, and trying to get the locos and rolling stock correct for c1950s era, albeit none of us have any real knowledge of the S&DR, hence raising questions here, but our S&D book collection is growing!

 

 

This area on the original layout was an aircraft runway, but we have redesigned the area as the village of Broad Sidlinch. The large building in the centre, is the Rectory,  with school and church beyond.

 

 

There has to be a farm!

 

 

 

By the loco shed is the railway "town", complete with chapel, pub and village shop.

 

 

The locos on shed are in the main "static" exhibits, well past their use by date! Albeit, the Jintys have been "worked-on", renumbered, and ok to bank trains up the steep climb from the fiddle yard to the main line. The 9F in the photo is very much a "static" exhibit! "Skin and rice pudding" come to mind. 

 

 

Paul

[geoffers]

Have seen the layout a fair few number of times as I usually pop in if I am at Holt Station (member of M&GNR society and live in Norfolk) and have seen the great strides you have made in restoring it. The photos above demonstrate that. Am looking forward to the dairy (think you are planning one) as Bailey Gate had a United Dairies, later Unigate, as its main business. The bookshop on Weybourne Station usually has a good selection of S&D books (though I'm sure you know that!) and there is a lot of S&D knowledge on RMWeb too.

Edited October 20, 2022 by geoffers

[PaulG]

13 minutes ago, geoffers said:

Have seen the layout a fair few number of times as I usually pop in if I am at Holt Station (member of M&GNR society and live in Norfolk) and have seen the great strides you have made in restoring it. The photos above demonstrate that. Am looking forward to the dairy (think you are planning one) as Bailey Gate had a United Dairies, later Unigate, as its main business. The bookshop on Weybourne Station usually has a good selection of S&D books (though I'm sure you know that!) and there is a lot of S&D knowledge on RMWeb too.

Tuesdays is our usual work day, and always happy to have a chat and coffee/tea.

 

We close at the end of October, and hopefully when we reopen at the Spring Gala next year, we will have successfully rewired the layout. 

 

Paul

[PaulG]

The Bachmann MR 4F 0-6-0 43875 arrived in good time, despite the Royal Mail strikes.

 

The loco ran well out of the box and looks very good.  The two marks on the chimney and tender noted in the advert came off easily with no hint of damage.

 

I've fitted Smiths screw couplings front and rear (also West Hill Wagon Works magnetic coupling to tender); the loco frame is cast metal, which took a little more effort to fit the coupling than the tender, which is plastic. I've also added crew, now just to change the shed plate from 21A Saltley to 71G Bath (S&D), but as my modelling interests are East Anglia, I don't have a suitable plate in the spares box!

 

Perhaps a little out of place at Colchester c1950s!

 

 

I'll take it to Holt on Tuesday and see how much it can drag around the layout.

 

Paul

[PaulG]

As the model railway is funded by Friends of Holt Station, we have to be "prudent" with purchases.

 

We managed to purchase six Airfix mineral wagons cheaply, and this weeks "homework" was to refubish them.

 

Fortunately the bodies came away from chassis easy for spray painting.

 

Pinpoint brass bearings were added, together Smiths three-link  couplings and lead-shot between the frames for additional weight, instead of the one penny pieces the previous owner glued in the wagon.

 

 

I left the Airfix "hinged" door, but know many modellers have improved this detail. Also note the eclectic mix of wheels of varying diameters, 13mm to 11.75mm!

 

Number, lettering and "weathering", and then back to Holt Station.

 

Paul

 

Project complete, with a dusting of rust and grime!

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by PaulG
Wagons complete

[PaulG]

The model railway has received another loco, courtesy of the NNR, a model of the lines 4MT 2-6-0 76084, which Bachmann have just released.

 

From what we have read, none of the class were allocated to S&D sheds, but those from Eastleigh regularly worked Bournemouth to Bath and back.

 

76012 was the first member of the class to work over the S&D in March 1955, and we have seen photos of 76006/7/10-12/15/9/26/8/65-67 on the line. Some have the larger tender (BR1B 76053-69) and some as modeled by Bachmann. 

 

Bachmann have modeled correctly (to our eyes) the unusual tender lining, where the lining is inset from the rear of the tender.

 

 

Was this form of lining unique to 76084 or did some of those which worked the S&D have similar lining?

 

Any comments much appreciated 

 

Paul

Edited November 13, 2022 by PaulG

[PaulG]

In respect of 76084 tender lining, a bit of "Googling" finds a Paper by  Roger Bradley on this class of loco. 

 

The Paper includes a photo of 76099 on completion in 1956 with the same tender lining as 76084. Both locos were built at Horwich Works. 

 

However, there is a photo of 76000 on completion at Horwich in 1951, and the lining is the more usual pattern, near the edge of the tender body.

 

Roger doesn't mention these variations, but it would "appear" only Horwich built locos 76075-99 in 1956 (Batch 9 and 10), had this "unusual" tender lining. 

 

Unless, others find more details!

 

As all the series 76075-99 were allocated "up north", I may have to not only alter the Bachmann model number, but also the tender lining for Broad Sidlinch!

 

Paul

[geoffers]

The trips initially were by Eastleigh based locos, as you say, but some 76XXX class were allocated to Bournemouth in the 1960s (ie 76026). Be aware that the small tender versions on the S&D (BR2) were different to the BR2A version that is on 76084 in that former BR2 had no fall-plate and cab doors attached, 76053 to 76069 had the larger BR1B tender to give more water capacity given that the SR did not have water troughs. The Watercress Line's 76017 was originally built with the earlier cab style and BR2 tender. I can recall seeing 76005,76006, 76008, 76009, 76010, 76011, 76012, 76013, 76014, 76015, 76016, 76019, 76025, and 76026, on S&D services, together with the large tendered 76056, 76057, and 76069. In fact 76026 pulled me back from Templecombe to Bailey Gate on the last late afternoon train on Saturday 5th March, 1966. 76011 was also active that last week. As far as I know the SR versions did not have the tender lining quite as on 76084.

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by geoffers

[PaulG]

2 hours ago, geoffers said:

The trips initially were by Eastleigh based locos, as you say, but some 76XXX class were allocated to Bournemouth in the 1960s (ie 76026). Be aware that the small tender versions on the S&D (BR2) were different to the BR2A version that is on 76084 in that former BR2 had no fall-plate and cab doors attached, 76053 to 76069 had the larger BR1B tender to give more water capacity given that the SR did not have water troughs. The Watercress Line's 76017 was originally built with the earlier cab style and BR2 tender. I can recall seeing 76005,76006, 76008, 76009, 76010, 76011, 76012, 76013, 76014, 76015, 76016, 76019, 76025, and 76026, on S&D services, together with the large tendered 76056, 76057, and 76069. In fact 76026 pulled me back from Templecombe to Bailey Gate on the last late afternoon train on Saturday 5th March, 1966. 76011 was also active that last week. As far as I know the SR versions did not have the tender lining quite as on 76084.

 

 

Thank you for your comments, which confirms our guess, that none of the Horwich Works Batch 9 and 10, which appear to be the only members with the "unusual" lining, ran on the S&D.

 

I note your comments about the fall plate and gangway door variation between the BR2 and BR2A tender, which confirms Roger Bradley comments about the only visual difference.  I quite like the idea of renumbering the Bachmann loco as 76012, which I read was the first of the class trialed on the S&D in March 1955; but do I have the skill to alter the tender lining!!

 

Paul

[geoffers]

Good luck if you try to redo the tender lining. I might have done so years ago but wouldn't attempt it now. You could run 76084 as a visitor from the north, or temporary transfer (rule one and all that, and this did happen with the Class 3 Mogul 77014 which was transferred down and ended up as the last loco in steam on the SR when they finished with steam on 9th July 1967 when it trundled down to Weymouth with a late evening parcels. This loco also came up to Blandford on specials and I think it did a goods trip post-closure). So 76084 might well create interest from the viewing public given that the real loco might easily be "hissing" outside. Bachmann did an earlier version numbered 76020, which I renumbered to 76015 and 76026, with an Adrian Butler (of Lord and Butler) weathered version with the BR!B tender numbered 76058. Bachmann have also just issued 76066 with the BR1B tender. They were popular locos apparently but I have read that they got a bit breathless on express duty over the Mendips whereas the double-chimneyed 4-6-0 4MT 75071, 75072, and 75073 were regarded almost as good as a class 5 (info came from Peter Smith's books, the RCTS Standard series, and Alan Hammond's series of books). Looking forward to seeing the layout again.

[PaulG]

An opportunity came up to purchase a secondhand Bachmann 9F 2-10-0 from Great Eastern Models in Norwich, which is in excellent condition, including all the add on pieces in the "little plastic bag".

 

 

The model is of 92002 and initial thoughts are to renumber it to either 92000 or 92001, both of which were initially allocated to Ebbw Junction Newport in 1954 and moved to Bath Green Park in 1961.

 

92002 also started life at Ebbw Junction in 1954, but moved to Tyseley in 1963, according to www.BRdatabase.

 

By 1961 were they still carrying the early BR emblem and the GW "blue dot"?

 

Photos so far found of the locos it's difficult to know, because they are so dirty!

 

Many thanks for comments. 

Paul 

[markw]

92001 had a blue dot with late crest in 1961

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by markw

[PaulG]

8 hours ago, markw said:

92001 had a blue dot with late crest in 1961

 

Thank you Mark, superb and basis for weathering the model.

 

Paul

[geoffers]

Nice photo Mark. Not seen that one before.

[PaulG]

Bachmann 9F 2-10-0 92002

The loco ran well on the railway at Holt yesterday, so now a little modelling: change tender crest to the later style, number to 92000 - easier to change 2 to 0, than a 1, as the centering otherwise looks wrong, screw couplings, fit the "bag of bits", crew and weathering. 

 

Reading one of the Ivo Peter's S&D books, he comments that all the 9F drafted to the S&D had double chimneys.

 

The Bachmann model has a single chimney and 92000/1 had their single chimneys replaced before moving to the S&D, so the model is correct when built, but I need to replace the chimney. 

 

Unfortunately, Wizard (Comet), Bachmann and Phoenix websites, don't show a 9F double chimney, but Peter's Spares stock a Hornby 9F double chimney  and at the "princely", some of £1, worth buying albeit I have no idea how accurate it is. Even on the "close-coupling" pin, the loco looks a long way from the tender, so I may see if this can also be adjusted. Any comments?

 

Paul 

[Robert Shrives]

Great to read of developments across the layout, I was able to visit in the autumn and was pleased to see it in the flesh and how well it ran and looked - the gentle progress in refreshing scenery pays dividends and the photos do look good. 

 

Robert   

[geoffers]

All Bath allocated 9Fs were double chimneyed apparently but some 9F visitors were occasionally "purloined" for use and these included single chimney variants but also with different BR tender styles. Quite a few years ago I replaced the chimney on a Bachmann 9F with a white metal 9F double chimney casting (it might have been 247 Developments) but it always looked a bit on the large size compared to the Bachmann 9F double chimney. Guess the Hornby version will be OK (presumably not the new 9F model though) but it takes a bit of courage to remove the single chimney (it may pull out) and then to put the double chimney in the correct position. Good luck.

[PaulG]

Wet afternoon in Norfolk,  so opportunity to start the 9F, as purchased in first photo. 

 

 

A bit of filing and the Hornby double chimney fits ok, T-cut applied with "trimmed" cocktail stick soon removed crest, 9F and "2" on cab side. Fortunatly, I've still got some HMRS pressfix transfers and Fox sheet of smokebox numbers.

 

 

 

Fitted Smiths screw couplings and "bag of bits", also made a new draw bar, to reduce tender/loco gap, now just weathering to also seal the new transfers, albeit perhaps not weathered to the same extent as the real thing at Bristol Barrow Road!

 

 

Paul

Edited December 22, 2022 by PaulG

[PaulG]

A few hours of "fun" and both the Bachmann 9F and 4MT 2-6-0 have new identities, crew and a bit of "weathering". Just need some coal in the tenders - plenty of that at Holt Station!

 

 

The 9F required new double chimney, later crest on tender and new number, 92000, which was allocated to Bath Green Park in 1961 from Ebbw Junction. I haven't "weathered" the loco to the same degree as the prototype photo posted on 22nd!

 

 

The 4MT 2-6-0 required the tender relined, as the Bachmann model was of Derby built 76084, with the inset lining,  none of which we understand got to the S&D. A new tender body with "normal" lining was purchased from Bachmann Spares. 76025 photographed in April 1955 on the S&D was chosen to copy.

 

 

Paul

(photos taken on my Colchester layout)