TheTalkinLens' North Eastern Railway workbench

[thetalkinlens]

Thanks for the replies @jwealleans, @Scottiedog@5 and @Worsdell forever.

 

I think changing the wheels will certainly help and that is quite timely for another wagon I'm working on (a NER diagram P4 from a 3d print, which I'll post separately). I haven't been able to find anywhere that has Gibson wheels in stock (might not have looked hard enough!), but I see that 51L do a wagon wheel which looks pretty similar. I was wondering if this was close or even the same?

 

I like the idea of replacing the roof. How do you shape this or is it thin enough to bend on its own? Also how would you approach the items which protrude from the main roof arc?

 

I've ordered several of the 51L wagon kits from Andrew at Wizard in the past. I'd be grateful if anyone can point me to the correct axleboxes, brake levers and buffers etc available from Wizard to go for on the F10.

 

I think making a new underframe from Plasticard should be within my capabilities, but I'm not sure how to go about the various raised shapes that protrude such as the semi circles.

 

I've made a little bit of progress since the last photos posted (picture below). The F10 now has screw link couplings, etched ladders (from a signal ladder set from Wizard), vacuum pipes and I have a Westinghouse pipe to fit too.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

Here is another wagon I've been working on this last week. Probably my favourite N.E.R. wagon of all, the Diagram P4 hopper, which is a 3d print from the "Small Loco Works". They can be found only on Facebook I believe, but would highly recommend, as the print quality is excellent and the price is very good. I think it works out at roughly £13 each if you buy five or more.

 

I've finished this one bar weathering. It has been painted and transfers applied, and three link couplings fitted. There is a pre cut slot just the right size for metal three link couplings. There are also NEM sockets, which I've opted to keep rather than cut off.

 

I also opened up the axle boxes to fit bearings. My first attempt at this was to accept Bachmann wheel sets, which have a thicker axle end profile and required more opening up. So much that I blew through the axleboxes. All is not lost as it will fill and paint over. The wagon pictured is a second example, where I've used a wheelset with a far thinner axle end profile, resulting in about 1.5mm difference despite being the same overall length! I found these wheelsets in a David Geen kit and need to source some more for the other three of these wagons I have. I think they could be Gibson or 51L, but if anyone is good at identifying wagon wheelsets from sight I'd be really grateful! I can post close up photos of the wheelsets if that helps.

 

This one is modelled as 23069, a photo of which exists in the NERA archive. It does differ slightly to that example, with some vertical strapping missing and also the hand rails are not present.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[jwealleans]

I've started using Andrew's wagon wheels as they're now cheaper than Hornby's.   Make the roof with 20 thou plasticard strapped to an empty wine bottle.  Fill the bottle with boiling water then allow to cool.  The handrails and hatches are just wire and bits of plastic.

 

On mine, I used NERC006 axlesboxes but cut the springs off.   I then used LMSC006 springs with J hangers with those axleboxes.   Buffers were NERC028A .

 

For solebar detail, there's a lot on the MJT etch with the W irons (including the semicircular plate) and between that, the Mainly Trains detailing etch from Wizard and Evergreen strip with rivet transfers you can cover most things.

 

Brake levers are NERC029.

[thetalkinlens]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

I've started using Andrew's wagon wheels as they're now cheaper than Hornby's.   Make the roof with 20 thou plasticard strapped to an empty wine bottle.  Fill the bottle with boiling water then allow to cool.  The handrails and hatches are just wire and bits of plastic.

 

On mine, I used NERC006 axlesboxes but cut the springs off.   I then used LMSC006 springs with J hangers with those axleboxes.   Buffers were NERC028A .

 

For solebar detail, there's a lot on the MJT etch with the W irons (including the semicircular plate) and between that, the Mainly Trains detailing etch from Wizard and Evergreen strip with rivet transfers you can cover most things.

 

Brake levers are NERC029.

 

Some incredibly useful information here, thank you very much!

[thetalkinlens]

I'm currently working on this North Eastern Railway goods warehouse. It is intended to be the one at Sawdon on the Forge Valley Railway, but there were ones to the same design on other N.E.R. lines such as the Whitby to Loftus and the Scarborough to Whitby, with minor variations.

 

 

Slaters embossed plasticard is used for the brickwork and roof. Plasticard sheet for strengthening the structure inside. Plastruct lengths of various dimensions are used for the fine details.

 

 

The most recent focus has been on the curved boarding (above) and getting a consistent cut of the pointed end. This wasn't as neat as I'd like using a knife, so I invested in a miter shear cutter (below) which has done a much better job.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

About six weeks since my last post on the N.E.R. Diagram F10 ventilated van and I've finally placed an order with Wizard Models and got the various parts needed to make the underframe. Here is the result, which I think is now ready to paint, but if anyone thinks I've missed something, now would be great to let me know!

 

There are vacuum detail still to go underneath, but these will be fitted to the underneath of the body rather than the underframe. I'm thinking of making these from plasticard rather than sourcing whitemetal castings or brass etches.

 

Here is the parts list in case it is of use to anyone. All parts are from Wizard Models.

• Axle guards
  NERC007: 51L NER No. 1D J-Hanger Wagon Oil Axleguards
• Brake Levers
  NERC029: 51L NER Fitted Wagon Morton Cam Brake Levers
• Buffers
  NERC021A: 51L NER Post-1918 Ribbed Wagon Buffers
• Brake Shoes
  UC015: 51L Clasp Brake Shoes for 12mm Diameter Wheels
• Solebar detail
  MT166: Mainly Trains Wagon Detailing Components

The solebars, bufferbeams, v hangers and rod are all plasticard.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

Here is the N.E.R. Diagram F10 vent refrigerator van completed, bar any underframe braking detail.

 

It's been my first attempt at scratch building a wagon roof and underframe and overall I'm very happy with how this little project of converting a Hornby ready to run into something at least a little bit more accurate has turned out.

 

Apart from weathering, since the previous post, the wagon has had roof detail added, which is all plasticard. I attempted the roof grab rails in wire initially, but wasn't getting a neat enough bend, so opted for 0.3mm Plastruct rod. The solebars have had some waterslide transfers added. The makers plate is made up from Slater's waterslide transfers. I have no idea if Hornby's choice of 151276 as the number is a work of fiction, but didn't see any reason to change it.

 

Many thanks to @jwealleans and @Worsdell forever for offering advice further up the thread.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

An update on the N.E.R. small goods warehouse I've been working on, which is now pretty much complete. I've used Modelu downpipe detailing for the first time and generally very impressed with these. I only managed to loose one in the carpet and destroy another!

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[MarkC]

Lovely work with the goods shed. Very reminiscent of the one still extant at Cloughton. (Now converted into a holiday cottage, IIRC).

 

Mark

[thetalkinlens]

3 hours ago, MarkC said:

Lovely work with the goods shed. Very reminiscent of the one still extant at Cloughton. (Now converted into a holiday cottage, IIRC).

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark. Yes, I have a number of archive photos taken by myself in the 90's and supplied by others of the one at Cloughton before it was converted. I've used those photos a lot for reference points on this build. It was the same design to the one my model is intended for - Sawdon on the Pickering to Seamer, with a few minor differences. The warehouse at Sawdon also still stands, but it is now converted to a house.

[thetalkinlens]

For my North Eastern Railway period locomotives and rolling stock, I have opted for three link or screw link couplings with metal hooks on the bufferbeams. On the TMC/Bachmann Class O, there is very little space behind the hole for the hook due to a mounting for the chassis screw.

 

I prefer to file the shaft of hooks down rather than open up the hole on the bufferbeam. The issue with the spacing indicated below:

 

 

And this is my solution below. The hook shaft has been cut to length and a new 0.4mm hole drilled through it. There is then just enough space to fit some 0.012" (about 0.31mm) wire through the hole. The wire is tight against the body and when the chassis marries up, it holds the wire in place, so no glue is needed.

 

 

A small amount of filing is needed on the chassis: a cut shape for the hook shaft end and a bit off the top front to allow space for the wire. The guard irons mounted on the chassis have also been trimmed for space for the wire.

 

 

The rear of the model is much more straight forward with plenty of space to push the hook right through. It will then be bent through 90 degrees against the rear of the bufferbeam and glued so it does not foul the bogie.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

After a lot longer than intended, I've finally invested in a soldering iron for white metal kits and today was the first crack at putting one together without using Araldite. Fortunately, I think I did my research reasonably thoroughly, taking advice from many fellow modellers, to which I'm truly grateful, and nothing melted except the solder!

 

This is a 51L North Eastern Railway Diagram G1 covered goods van. I paused at this stage to pick which wagon number it was going to get and the correct brake configuration. With that now decided, onwards to the brake levers, floor and roof before a scrub down and priming...

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[MarkC]

12 hours ago, thetalkinlens said:

After a lot longer than intended, I've finally invested in a soldering iron for white metal kits and today was the first crack at putting one together without using Araldite. Fortunately, I think I did my research reasonably thoroughly, taking advice from many fellow modellers, to which I'm truly grateful, and nothing melted except the solder!

 

This is a 51L North Eastern Railway Diagram G1 covered goods van. I paused at this stage to pick which wagon number it was going to get and the correct brake configuration. With that now decided, onwards to the brake levers, floor and roof before a scrub down and priming...

 

Well done. Soldering, and whitemetal soldering in particular, is one of those techniques that sounds more daunting than it actually is. It's a damn sight faster than using epoxy too!

 

Mark

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by MarkC

[thetalkinlens]

Another 3d printed P4 hopper by the Small Loco Works has been completed. This one is in 1911 to 1922 livery.

I have three more of these to finish, but am now struggling to find any photos of original wagons to base them on.

 

 

 

 

And this is the one I previously posted, which has since been weathered:

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

The Diagram G1 kit by 51L is now complete bar weathering. A little messy soldering the brake levers onto the solebar. A bit more practice needed there, but otherwise I'm pretty happy how this has gone together.

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[thetalkinlens]

I've been itching to start this one since I picked it up off a well known online auction web site last year for just £6. It is a Keyser K's brake van kit. I'm not sure how old, but I'd guess at least 70's?

 

By my reckoning, it is a reasonably close representation of the prototype to the N.E.R. Diagram V4, which was given Diagram U16. Only the one was built: No.17827 and it was allocated to "Goods, York". I've seen a few other modellers having made this kit and it looks pretty acceptable in my opinion.

 

The whitemetal castings were quite severally bent on inspection. I've straightened them out as best I can, though it's still not as good as it might be.

 

 

One of the end floors was missing, which I knew about before purchase. Rather than have mismatching ends, I've made up two replacement floors from plasticard. These will go in once I've finished soldering the end hand rails on.

 

I'd like to improve on neatening up my visible soldering joints, such as on the handrails. Any tips here would be welcome.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by thetalkinlens

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, thetalkinlens said:

I've been itching to start this one since I picked it up off a well known online auction web site last year for just £6. It is a Keyser K's brake van kit. I'm not sure how old, but I'd guess at least 70's?

 

By my reckoning, it is a reasonably close representation of the prototype to the N.E.R. Diagram V4, which was given Diagram U16. Only the one was built: No.17827 and it was allocated to "Goods, York". I've seen a few other modellers having made this kit and it looks pretty acceptable in my opinion.

 

The whitemetal castings were quite severally bent on inspection. I've straightened them out as best I can, though it's still not as good as it might be.

 

 

One of the end floors was missing, which I knew about before purchase. Rather than have mismatching ends, I've made up two replacement floors from plasticard. These will go in once I've finished soldering the end hand rails on.

 

I'd like to improve on neatening up my visible soldering joints, such as on the handrails. Any tips here would be welcome.

 

Very nice.

 

You've probably seen the initial photos of my own model using this kit, which I have built during my present tour of duty on my ship. (It's now packed away ready for suffering the vagaries of the luggage system during my forthcoming flight home...). The only modification I've made was to fit more modern wheels with pin point bearings, rather than the original plain axles, intended to run in the whitemetal itself. Once home I'll paint it & then put a couple of photos up. I bought mine via the Bay of E back in 2012, so it's been in the roundtuit pile for quite a while!

 

The whitemetal, I thought, was very nice to work with, compared to modern material which has more pewter in it, I think, which makes it harder, but more brittle.

 

Mark

[thetalkinlens]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

Very nice.

 

You've probably seen the initial photos of my own model using this kit, which I have built during my present tour of duty on my ship. (It's now packed away ready for suffering the vagaries of the luggage system during my forthcoming flight home...). The only modification I've made was to fit more modern wheels with pin point bearings, rather than the original plain axles, intended to run in the whitemetal itself. Once home I'll paint it & then put a couple of photos up. I bought mine via the Bay of E back in 2012, so it's been in the roundtuit pile for quite a while!

 

The whitemetal, I thought, was very nice to work with, compared to modern material which has more pewter in it, I think, which makes it harder, but more brittle.

 

Mark

 

Thanks Mark, yes I've put different wheels in and brass bearings. It rolls very nicely. I'm sure I've seen your thread with your build of it, as that rings a bell now you've mentioned it, but Rmweb's search is dire - could you link me to it please?

[MarkC]

9 hours ago, thetalkinlens said:

 

Thanks Mark, yes I've put different wheels in and brass bearings. It rolls very nicely. I'm sure I've seen your thread with your build of it, as that rings a bell now you've mentioned it, but Rmweb's search is dire - could you link me to it please?

I think it might have been in the LNER Modellers FB group, tbh.

 

Mark

[thetalkinlens]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

I think it might have been in the LNER Modellers FB group, tbh.

 

Mark

 

Found your post Mark, showing the kit in parts. I don't think I've seen any pics of yours built up yet though, so will be interested to see how it looks.

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, thetalkinlens said:

 

Found your post Mark, showing the kit in parts. I don't think I've seen any pics of yours built up yet though, so will be interested to see how it looks.

Ah, I'm sure I posted a couple. Will have a look.

 

Regarding the handrails, my brake van has had the "soldering into place" treatment too. I actually used straight lengths of wire rather than handrail knobs - I assembled the handrails where necessary using ordinary solder, and tinned the wires where they go into the van body. I then changed the iron tip for one with a very fine tip, inserted the handrails into predrilled holes, put a drop of liquid flux onto the wire/body area & then, with the iron set to a fairly high temperature - about 325 Deg.C, if memory serves - picked up a tiny amount of low melt solder on the tip of the iron & touched the tip to the point where the wire enters the body. Going in and out quickly (stop sniggering at the back, Carruthers...) avoids damage to the whitemetal & also avoids heat going up the wires & loosening the normally soldered joints.

 

Mark

[Jon4470]

23 hours ago, thetalkinlens said:

I've been itching to start this one since I picked it up off a well known online auction web site last year for just £6. It is a Keyser K's brake van kit. I'm not sure how old, but I'd guess at least 70's?

 

By my reckoning, it is a reasonably close representation of the prototype to the N.E.R. Diagram V4, which was given Diagram U16. Only the one was built: No.17827 and it was allocated to "Goods, York". I've seen a few other modellers having made this kit and it looks pretty acceptable in my opinion.

 

The whitemetal castings were quite severally bent on inspection. I've straightened them out as best I can, though it's still not as good as it might be.

 

 

One of the end floors was missing, which I knew about before purchase. Rather than have mismatching ends, I've made up two replacement floors from plasticard. These will go in once I've finished soldering the end hand rails on.

 

I'd like to improve on neatening up my visible soldering joints, such as on the handrails. Any tips here would be welcome.

 

Hi Ian

Nice to see that brake van and it’s looking good! Seems strange that they produced a kit of the one off prototype though. I suppose it could just be because there’s a very clear photo of it.

ref you question on the soldering of the handrails then I have two suggestions.

 

You can use fine grade files to remove the excess solder (it’s usually possible to get the file into most areas). This can test the strength of the solder joints though🙂. It is the safest approach on the white metal.

 

Or you can try to spread out the solder (as long as there’s not too much in the first place). For the brass to brass connection put flux on the brass handrails, add the iron at brass soldering temperature …. just until the solder melts….it should spread out just as if you are tinning the brass. Do remember to hold the horizontal rail in place until the solder solidifies. For the brass to white metal joints put the flux in the hole in the white metal and touch the iron to the solder. The flux should help it flow into the hole. I tend to use a fairly high temperature for this…but don’t dwell with the iron, especially on thin pieces of white metal. To be fair, I would use this as a back up plan….the files are probably best on white metal.

 

This is all similar to the approach suggested by@MarkCfor the initial construction. 
 

Jon

 

 

[thetalkinlens]

Many thanks for those suggestions @Jon4470 and @MarkC. I've found that the brass joints I've been doing have worked out quite well. It is the joints into the whitemetal where the brass is inserted into where it's not quite as neat as I'd like. I'll try the flux in the hole trick next time. It makes sense as a logical approach.

 

Yes interesting they did the prototype van. Perhaps they had drawings for it to hand and not the production one. I've finished off the handrails on the ends this evening and am about to glue in the replacement floors. I've ordered some resin 3d printed torpedo air vents and after a clean up it should be ready for painting.

[MarkC]

Hi Ian.

 

I thought I'd posted some shots of my van. My bad ☹️

 

If I get a chance whilst still on board, I'll unpack the beast & photograph it. It's had a coat of primer; didn't bring any topcoat with me. Otherwise I'll do it once I get home.

 

@John4470 - thanks for expanding on the soldering technique 👍

 

Cheers

Mark

 

[MarkC]

Here's a couple of shots of my attempt at the V4 van. Some filling and fettling still required - and guard rails - before topcoating, but still...

 

Will be finished once home - and the long-haired Admiral's work list has been done...

 

Mark