Class 73.

[Paul_C]

I wasn't sure where to post this so I hope I've located it correctly. Thoughts please as to what is the best class 73 in 00 scale. These were used apparently on the china clay services to Sittingbourne back in the mid-sixties so adding one to my layout would be a very good idea.

 

Paul.

[wirey33]

Dapol version is the newest and best. Various liveries available but look for newest as early ones had pick-up issues.

 

Hornby do a re-vamp of the old Lima one, which was/is a very good moulding for it's time; good option if you're on a budget.

 

 

 

 

[John M Upton]

Dapol version but be prepared to do a partial or full repaint to get it looking right as Dapol often get it wrong.

[TRAILRAGE]

The Lima Bodies were very good for their time and will even stand up to the Dapol model with a fair bit of detailing work Hornby's improved Chassis is a great although the wheel size is a little small at 12mm which causes it to sit a little low. Ideally 13.5mm should be used as it improves the height . I did this on one of my Hornby Chassis using spare Hornby 4-VEP wheels from the non powered MK6 Bogie. Motor bogie casing needs a little trimming but looks way better.

 

A project I've just started is a Non Powered 73 using a Lima E6012 body, spare Lima 73 Chassis, pair of Hornby 4-VEP non powered MK6 Motor Bogies *these need modifying with the addition of Shaw plan steps, Sandboxes and pipes and 3rd rail pickup shoes) fitted with a spare set of Heljan 13.5mm Diameter Wheels from a Class 17. Body will be fitted with Dapol CL73 High Level Air Pipes, SE flush Glazing , MJT Wiper Blades and maybe SR Horns. The Chassis will have the moulded underframe box cut off (the detail itself is a separate moulding) and the parts cut out and built up.

 

Ill try and get some pics for you.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[SRman]

As the other contributors have said, Dapol has the best mechanism, with a few reservations, and they have lighting, which the old Lima/Hornby RailRoad models don't have, but again there are cautions as the first batch of Dapol models had a faulty PCB design that left the cab lights on permanently.

Beware the livery errors. The first two batches had a BR blue that was most certainly NOT BR blue, with the early EE Co blue being even more wrong, if that's possible. Some of the liveries were really nicely done (see the photo of the Southern livery below).

I have been re-chassis-ing (is that a word?) all my old Lima 73s with Hornby chassis with 5-pole motor bogies. The body mouldings of the Lima/Hornby model are very good, but the simplified detail on the chassis lets them down a bit. Dapol E6007 in front (repainted to get rid of the awful blue and also the lemon yellow warning panels), with Lima E6012 on a Hornby chassis behind.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by SRman

[TRAILRAGE]

Few Shots of my Lima 73 Body/Chassis using parts from Hornby (4-VEP Bogies),  Heljan (Wheels), Dapol (High level pipework), SE Finecast (Glazing), MJT etched Brass wipers and some Turned Brass Horns I found in my spares tub. Still lots to do as I've only just started.

 

Dapol 73714 and Lima Hybrid E6012

 

Close up of Cabs showing improved Height

 

Temporary mounted on the bogies Left Hand Bogies has a false floor Drilled out so the Bogie will clip in 

 

 

 

Original Lima Trailing bogie. What detail is there is essentially Correct and shows how good the mouldings could be, They do seem a little undernourished but this could just be down to the undersize Wheels used

 

Dapol  Bogie which is a beautiful moulding 

 

Hornby MK6 Motor Bogie moulding from their 4-VEP attached to the false floor. Details are nice and crisp but needs additional work doing to it to make it look more like the 73 variant. Bogie Steps Fine Pipework 3rd Rail Pickup Shoes and and Sand Boxes .

 

As this is going to be a Non Powered Model I am going to find a way of fitting Kaydee Couplings to the Bogies  so it can run with any of my 4-VEP EMU'S.

 

Cheers Trailrage

Edited December 22, 2022 by TRAILRAGE

[TRAILRAGE]

Some extremley helpfulldetail shots here courtesy of Brian Daniels incredible Flickr collection.

 

 

[SRman]

2 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said:

Few Shots of my Lima 73 Body/Chassis using parts from Hornby (4-VEP Bogies),  Heljan (Wheels), Dapol (High level pipework), SE Finecast (Glazing), MJT etched Brass wipers and some Turned Brass Horns I found in my spares tub. Still lots to do as I've only just started.

 

Dapol 73714 and Lima Hybrid E6012

 

Close up of Cabs showing improved Height

 

Temporary mounted on the bogies Left Hand Bogies has a false floor Drilled out so the Bogie will clip in 

 

 

 

Original Lima Trailing bogie. What detail is there is essentially Correct and shows how good the mouldings could be, They do seem a little undernourished but this could just be down to the undersize Wheels used

 

Dapol  Bogie which is a beautiful moulding 

 

Hornby MK6 Motor Bogie moulding from their 4-VEPattached to the false floor. Details are nice and crisp but needs additional work doing to it to make it look more like the 73 variant. Bogie Steps Fine Pipework 3rd Rail Pickup Shoes and and Boxes .

 

As this is going to be a Non Powered Model I am going to find a way of fitting Kaydee Couplings to the Bogies  so it can run with any of my 4-VEP EMU'S.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

The Dapol bogies are really nice, although prone to losing bits at times. My E6007 came from The Hobby Shop, Faversham as a Limited Edition, with one wrong brake block on one bogie, which caused all sorts of running problems until I worked out what was happening. Dapol's warranty supplier, DCC Supplies sent me an entire replacement bogie frame rather than just the correct brake block assembly.

[DY444]

On 21/12/2022 at 21:47, TRAILRAGE said:

Some extremley helpfulldetail shots here courtesy of Brian Daniels incredible Flickr collection.

 

 

 

Although some of the pipes have been removed from the buffer beam compared to earlier times

[TRAILRAGE]

13 hours ago, DY444 said:

 

Although some of the pipes have been removed from the buffer beam compared to earlier times

your absolutely  correct. I think most if not all the Class 73  still running have had their Vacuum Brake pipework on the Bufferbeam removed.  I think they may have had the Vacuum Exhauster removed as well leaving an empty space under the Body.

[DY444]

9 hours ago, TRAILRAGE said:

your absolutely  correct. I think most if not all the Class 73  still running have had their Vacuum Brake pipework on the Bufferbeam removed.  I think they may have had the Vacuum Exhauster removed as well leaving an empty space under the Body.

 

In addition to the vacuum pipe, they also had a second air res pipe, two blue star engine air pipes and two blue star cable receptacles.  All those have been removed. 

[rogerzilla]

Does anyone make a 73/9?  They are almost a whole new class (did TOPS run out of 7- numbers?).  Diesel-electric rather than electro-diesel, different MU equipment, far bigger prime mover.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, rogerzilla said:

did TOPS run out of 7- numbers?

There are still a lot of unused 7x numbers, plus precedent when the 74s were created out of the 71s. But, logic seems to have deserted the allocation of TOPs class numbers a long time ago, with passenger unit class numbers dotted all over the place. Even the one-time logic of the 3xx, 4xx and 5xx groups has gone.

[rogerzilla]

Thanks - I wondered why they hadn't allocated a whole new class, like 69 is being used for the re-engineered 56.  The 73/9 is re-engineered to at least the same extent (and far more than, say 30 to 31 or 48 to 47!).

[frobisher]

4 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

Diesel-electric rather than electro-diesel, different MU equipment, far bigger prime mover.

 

Depends on which of the two batches of 73/9 as well; which really only have the donor class in common.

 

The GBRf ones are operated as Diesel-electric in the main part but are still very much electro-diesels (even if their shoe gear has been removed) but the NR ones have lost that capability (fairly certain of that) and have two prime movers...

 

I think both batches have AAR MW capability, and the GBRf ones have retained the SR EMU system as well (but not the high level brake pipes).

 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by frobisher

[bécasse]

Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it).

[jim.snowdon]

45 minutes ago, bécasse said:

Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it).

There are published photographs of test trains related to the Bournemouth electrification with an ED coupled in between an electric unit (could have been a 4-CIG or a 4-TC) and a trailing load of Bulleid coaching stock.

 

[DY444]

On 27/12/2022 at 21:21, bécasse said:

Is it, perhaps, worth mentioning that the first six 73s (or JAs as they were) could operate as (powered) converter vehicles between air-braked and vacuum-braked stock, much in the way that the first two MLVs could. I think that the reasoning was that newspaper trains (many of which conveyed limited - eg a BSK - passenger accommodation) could be formed 2-HAP (or 4-CEP) + JA + vans. I am not at all sure that it ever happened in practice but I have seen a train in motion formed 4-CEP + MLV + a string of fitted 16 ton MLVs (with old-style head code 16 on the CEP if anyone wishes to replicate it).

 

Actually most BR DB locomotives could do this because internally they worked as translators when hauling VB stock.  On most DB locomotives the driver's brake valve controlled the BP pressure and equipment on the locomotive created a vacuum in proportion to that pressure.  That equipment doesn't care how the BP pressure was changed, providing the exhauster is running it just does its thing.  So if the BP pressure is varied by an AB locomotive coupled in front it will still work and you can operate a VB train with an AB locomotive.  It's not ideal as the exhauster needs to run which might require the engine to be running which might require it to be manned, or the batteries might drain, plus the lead driver has no vacuum gauge so doesn't know exactly what the train brakes are doing but preserved lines do it occasionally to allow a visiting AB locomotive to work with their VB stock. 

 

I am not aware of any concrete evidence this method of working occurred on the main line (apart from the SR tests in the early 60s) but there are (potentially apocryphal) stories that it did happen once or twice on the diversions between New St and Nuneaton when 56s were being used to haul the diversions and an electrically hauled VB train turned up unexpectedly. 

Edited December 29, 2022 by DY444

[Covkid]

On 29/12/2022 at 15:36, DY444 said:

 

Actually most BR DB locomotives could do this because internally they worked as translators when hauling VB stock.  On most DB locomotives the driver's brake valve controlled the BP pressure and equipment on the locomotive created a vacuum in proportion to that pressure.  That equipment doesn't care how the BP pressure was changed, providing the exhauster is running it just does its thing.  So if the BP pressure is varied by an AB locomotive coupled in front it will still work and you can operate a VB train with an AB locomotive.  It's not ideal as the exhauster needs to run which might require the engine to be running which might require it to be manned, or the batteries might drain, plus the lead driver has no vacuum gauge so doesn't know exactly what the train brakes are doing but preserved lines do it occasionally to allow a visiting AB locomotive to work with their VB stock. 

 

I am not aware of any concrete evidence this method of working occurred on the main line (apart from the SR tests in the early 60s) but there are (potentially apocryphal) stories that it did happen once or twice on the diversions between New St and Nuneaton when 56s were being used to haul the diversions and an electrically hauled VB train turned up unexpectedly. 

 

From what I understand, all sorts of things happened with the Sunday drags.  Many years ago my mate witnessed a VO class 40 drag a pair of EMUs with the OLE switched off. 

[John M Upton]

Can't use 734xx or 738xx for any Class 73 sub classes as these are taken up by driving cars of 377 stock.

 

Other 73xxx numbers are similarly occupied.