Hawkhurst Branch goods

[Mr chapman]

I have a question about the hawkhurst branch. I see various pictures of wagons parked up in sidings and stations, but I can't find a picture of them in a train. We're dedicated pickup goods trains run down the branch? Or would these be attached to the push-pull trains? 

 

Thanks 

[anroar53]

There are a number of photos in the book 'Branch Line to Hawkhurst' by Mitchell and Smith that shows a 1.45pm from Hawkhurst Freight working, mostly hauled by a 'C' class, although it doesn't mention if this was a daily working or not ?

[bécasse]

I have checked the passenger train WTT for summer 1958, the whole service is shown to be worked by Rail Motors (pull-and-push trains) and no workings are shown as mixed so goods traffic must have been worked by a dedicated train. There were big gaps in the passenger service in the morning and afternoon(SX), so the goods probably worked from Paddock Wood to Hawkhurst in the late morning, laid by at Hawkhurst while the return lunchtime passenger service worked from Paddock Wood to Hawkhurst and back, and then worked back to Paddock Wood (at 1.45pm judging by the photo captions reported above). It either didn't run on Saturdays (quite probable by 1958) or had different timings on that day.

[Wickham Green too]

The June 1947 WTT of Freight Trains shows an 05.30 from Paddock Wood daily, an 11.45 SX and an SX 'Q' path at 06.05 as far as Goudhurst. Returns are 'Q No.7' ( whatever that means ) at 10.00 daily, an 05.50 SX 'Q', another 05.50 (!) daily ( differently timed from Goudhurst ) and an 08.40 SX 'Q' from Goudhurst.

[The Lurker]

"The Hawkhurst Branch" by Brian Hart has more pictures. It has an extract of the 1951 freight timetable (p202), which at first glance looks identical to the 1947 WTT that Wickham Green too quotes, even with a Q No 7 path.

 

There's at least one 1955 photo of an E4 with a push-pull set being delivered to Hawkhurst, complete with a guard's van. This was 1.50 freight service from Paddock Wood (P211 of Hart but I think that the Mitchell and Smith book might have a similar photo). It looks like the engine that worked the 1.50 would work the 5.30 freight, which followed the 5.5 passenger service.

 

Hart also quotes the traffic receipts given in the closure proposal as:

Passengers    £12,000

Parcels            £20,000

Freight            £46,000

 

Traffic gleaned from perusing the book; domestic coal, livestock (Horsmonden lamb fair!) fruit and flowers.

 

So yes there was but I guess not photographed as much as the passenger trains, especially the hop pickers friends' specials and the Ramblers Association specials.

[Mr chapman]

Thanks everyone, looks like I have a couple of books to buy :) 

[Tom Burnham]

I believe that in the 1950s there was a considerable volume of pot plants despatched from Hawkhurst, generally in a utility van formed in the push pull trains. I'd guess that accounted for a fair proportion of the quoted parcels revenue. A few 4 wheel general utility vans were provided with through air pipes so that they could be coupled between the loco and a push pull set.

[Wickham Green too]

I've never seen any evidence of Air Control Vans on the Hawkhurst Branch ..... they spent most of their time as pram vans on Castleman's Corkscrew, I think - though there is a picture of one at Tonbridge on a Maidstone West working.

 

According to the Oracle ( MIke King's Pull-Push book ) one  Air Control Van was allocated to the Western Section for the Castleman's Corkscrew, two to the Central Section for Brighton-Guildford & Cranleigh-Guildford workings and two to the South Eastern Section for Tonbridge- Maidstone West & Sevenoaks-Maidstone West services. So any vans on the Hawkhurst Branch would have been handled as tail traffic - or in the freight train .... with little inconvenience as they were not loaded/unloaded at either end branch-end platform.

[bécasse]

The air-control vans seemed to have been used principally for accompanied pram traffic, rather than parcels per se.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 16/12/2022 at 02:28, Mr chapman said:

I have a question about the hawkhurst branch. I see various pictures of wagons parked up in sidings and stations, but I can't find a picture of them in a train.

 

There's some pictures on "Friends of the Hawkhurst Line" of wagons with a loco attached.

e.g. 6th black & white pic on their home page.

https://friendsofthehawkurstline.blogspot.com/

[Tom Burnham]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I've never seen any evidence of Air Control Vans on the Hawkhurst Branch ..... they spent most of their time as pram vans on Castleman's Corkscrew, I think - though there is a picture of one at Tonbridge on a Maidstone West working.

 

According to the Oracle ( MIke King's Pull-Push book ) one  Air Control Van was allocated to the Western Section for the Castleman's Corkscrew, two to the Central Section for Brighton-Guildford & Cranleigh-Guildford workings and two to the South Eastern Section for Tonbridge- Maidstone West & Sevenoaks-Maidstone West services. So any vans on the Hawkhurst Branch would have been handled as tail traffic - or in the freight train .... with little inconvenience as they were not loaded/unloaded at either end branch-end platform.

Thanks for the clarification.  I had a recollection of the vans being mentioned in an article on the branch in Trains Illustrated around the time the branch closed.

Incidentally, having looked the vans up in David Gould's book on SR passenger vans, I see there were in fact two series of passenger luggage vans fitted to work with push-pull trains. Five SECR built vans were converted in about 1941. They were withdrawn in 1962 and replaced by five 1950 built vans, for the few SWD push-pull services remaining in 1962.

[Wickham Green too]

Yes, the SECR vans were getting rather long in the tooth by then ..... all their contemporaries had gone from traffic long before -  though the majority lasted into, or beyond, the seventies in departmental service.

[Tom Burnham]

8 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yes, the SECR vans were getting rather long in the tooth by then ..... all their contemporaries had gone from traffic long before -  though the majority lasted into, or beyond, the seventies in departmental service.

Straying from the original question but a couple of the SE&CR vans survive, one on the Bluebell Railway and the other - the prototype - on the K&ESR.

[Wickham Green too]

It didn't actually look too shabby back in 1974 : - 

[SED Freightman]

For what its worth the BR London East District Timings for Light Engines Supplement No.1 commencing 02/07/1951, shows Tonbridge Duty 326 as follows :-

3.45pm SO Paddock Wood to Hawkhurst arr.4.15pm, thence freight shunting.

9.12pm SO Paddock Wood to Tonbridge MPD arr 9.27pm, after working 5.35pm freight from Hawkhurst.